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Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:26:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from mxe217.netcup.net (unknown [10.243.12.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by policy02-mors.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4V3NG858VPz8sgS; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:26:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from florianrock64 (ip92344de0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [146.52.77.224]) by mxe217.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F3EB83589; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:26:17 +0100 (CET) From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" In-Reply-To: <18e6fc95976.1123b38ca424631.8698364288744551259@excalamus.com> (matt@excalamus.com's message of "Sun, 24 Mar 2024 10:27:30 +0100") References: <87a5p8yn4p.fsf@dadoes.de> <18d0e410102.e16898001715108.8020629039859398477@excalamus.com> <878r4ml93e.fsf@gmail.com> <18d23870de2.119d4f41c239950.5543896370981537109@excalamus.com> <18d48373140.10c55a4722276191.1969374822318990762@excalamus.com> <87r0h5ray4.fsf@gmail.com> <18dccf417d0.ca418748214075.562011919630800442@excalamus.com> <87y1bboq2i.fsf@gmail.com> <18dd741c397.eb3e3c20130225.478777462592413812@excalamus.com> <18dff5f7ac0.12981499e295073.4475195706110749663@excalamus.com> <87zfvbgu3q.fsf_-_@pelzflorian.de> <18e154a064f.10b18ae281601105.807357574739020306@excalamus.com> <87bk7qnfd5.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <18e280dc65a.fb9272352515573.111358157668309553@excalamus.com> <87le6ou5ly.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <18e46e0150a.126718be4584704.7946677375549431621@excalamus.com> <87zfuynug6.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <18e6fc95976.1123b38ca424631.8698364288744551259@excalamus.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:26:17 +0100 Message-ID: <87le66dsfa.fsf_-_@pelzflorian.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0F3EB83589 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd-worker-8404 X-NC-CID: 2H0YIadUdZjQ0L6aaRUN6EoP1OgeyG61mmpqTj09xEIG5/Rmqx1m0ycN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 38A71BBE9 X-Spam-Score: -5.34 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: GwnGilBroYI1 Hi Matt, mostly looks good to me. Matt writes: >---- On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:05:13 +0100 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote= --- >>>> Either >>>> say =E2=80=9CYou can install the Guix package management tool and dist= ribution=E2=80=9D >>>> or =E2=80=9CYou can install Guix=E2=80=9D. >>> You can install the Guix package management tool on top of an >> Precisely this terminology is the issue. Nix is a package manager; >> Nixpkgs is a distribution. For Guix, Guix is both a package manager and >> distribution.[=E2=80=A6] > You can install the package management tool Guix on top of an Looking at it with fresh eyes myself, your wording is OK. Even though I still think you have a misunderstanding of the term distribution, there is no reason for me to insist the term distribution must be explained here. > 1. A clear distinction between Guix and the Guix System was not made > > I have split the suggested sentence, whose current version (v04) is > given above, into two. One sentence has the subject of "the package > management tool Guix" and the other "the Guix System". You were > correct in observing that the suggestion confused the meaning of > "Guix". Good catch! > > 2. The use of "operating system" is inappropriate > > The v04 suggestion used "operating system" only because the current > manual (bf53001) says in Section 1: Introduction, "If, instead, you > want to install the complete GNU operating system..." before linking > to "...how to install Guix System on a machine." > > I have changed the patch set to say, > > "If, instead, you want to install the complete, standalone GNU system > distribution..." I like that you added the word =E2=80=9Cstandalone=E2=80=9D. But I prefer = the old ordering where this sentence comes after =E2=80=9CThis section +is concerned with the installation of Guix on a foreign distro.=E2=80=9D Looking at how to make an install tarball for Hurd, I noticed that you removed these important instructions for building the tarball: > -The binary installation tarball can be (re)produced and verified simply > -by running the following command in the Guix source tree: > - > -@example > -make guix-binary.@var{system}.tar.xz > -@end example > - > -@noindent > -...@: which, in turn, runs: > - > -@example > -guix pack -s @var{system} --localstatedir \ > - --profile-name=3Dcurrent-guix guix > -@end example > - > -@xref{Invoking guix pack}, for more info on this handy tool. > - > @node Requirements > @section Requirements The tarball is needed by guix-install.sh, so the instructions for building it should stay, because it is what your recommended guix-install.sh uses. Please keep the instructions for this reason. No such tarball is released for GNU Hurd yet, and when I tried to build it for GNU Hurd, it fails, because guile-git cannot be built. Note that it is possible to instead cross-compile a pack for Hurd, using =E2=80=9C--target=3Di586-pc-gnu=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9C-s i586-gnu=E2= =80=9D, even though I have not tested if it can be used. Also note that Hurd is quite crashy. Better just not mention it here. >> Ubuntu should not get the credits for what Debian is doing. The current >> wording =E2=80=9CDebian or a derivative such as Ubuntu=E2=80=9D is faire= r and equally >> clear. > [=E2=80=A6] > My understanding is that many distros call themselves "based on > Ubuntu", "built upon Ubuntu", or list Ubuntu as "upstream" because > they use packages that are, at minimum, distributed by Ubuntu. I believe =E2=80=9CDebian or a derivative such as Ubuntu=E2=80=9D is a bett= er wording than =E2=80=9CDebian and Ubuntu-based systems=E2=80=9D, despite some Ubuntu= derivatives not mentioning Debian or users being aware only of Ubuntu. > I propose the following. The intent is to match the script's language > so that readers may understand the consequences of a 'Y' or 'n' > choice. The best place to do this would be in the prompt. However, > documenting consequences in the manual seems a reasonable compromise > which makes the prompt concise and allows us to link to the "On > Trusting Binaries" section. > > +By default, 'guix-install.sh' will configure Guix to download pre-built > +package binaries, called @dfn{substitutes} (@pxref{Substitutes}), from > +the project's build farms. If you choose not to permit this, Guix will > +build @emph{everything} from source, making each installation and > +upgrade very expensive. @xref{On Trusting Binaries} for a discussion of > +why you may want to build packages from source. Good! > * doc/guix.texi (Installation): > - Move the definition of "foreign distro" out of quotation > - Repeat overwrite warning > - Remove superfluous commentary >=20 > * doc/guix.texi (Binary Installation): > - Clarify that installing on a foreign distro has two methods: using > packaged binaries and building from source > - Add cross reference to "Building from Git" > - Move the foreign distro installation instructions out of quotation > - Move directions for 'guix-install.sh' after instructions to use > distribution-specific package managers > - Specify "distributions" as "GNU/Linux distributions" > - Add GnuPG as a requirement for 'guix-install.sh' > - Add comma after "Likewise" I think this comma (=E2=80=9CLikewise, on openSUSE:=E2=80=9D) should not be= added, since it does not improve understanding, but it is not really important. > - Remove redundant instructions to use 'guix-install.sh' > - Split the requirements between system requirements for binary > installations, GNU/Linux or GNU/Hurd, and requirements for running > 'guix-install.sh' > - Clarify that 'guix-install.sh' guides users through the steps > - Summarize the steps 'guix-install.sh' follows rather than try to > detail them > - Make explicit that the 'guix-install.sh' default is to download > substitutes > - Emphasize that the substitute authorization code is an example and > may need modification Well these details are good for reviewers, but the commit message is intended for readers of =E2=80=9Cgit log=E2=80=9D. Better keep it short li= ke the other commits you can view with =E2=80=9Ccd ~/src/guix; git log doc=E2=80=9D. Could you send another patch without mentioning the Hurd, or do you see a way to actually run Guix on a foreign GNU/Hurd distribution that you can document? Regards, Florian