From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id iHgtDv5brmB9lQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 16:32:30 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id eNTHCf5brmCcbQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 14:32:30 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CEB1A6BF for ; Wed, 26 May 2021 16:32:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60664 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lluaB-0005En-Sn for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 26 May 2021 10:32:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41736) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lluZq-0005CV-57 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 May 2021 10:32:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35816) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lluZp-0002EZ-9d; Wed, 26 May 2021 10:32:05 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=36898 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lluZo-0003Uk-VI; Wed, 26 May 2021 10:32:05 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bone Baboon Subject: Re: Rust freedom issue claim References: <87bl90byqf.fsf@disroot.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 7 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 16:32:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bl90byqf.fsf@disroot.org> (Bone Baboon's message of "Sun, 23 May 2021 23:24:24 -0400") Message-ID: <87k0nlsh0c.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1622039549; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=R6CDja5Vn/q0vwTlAIgudO1wibeJTDCxOnnGxIi50s0=; b=M5Qia5EKxjFvnqmOyPT6SatvxwcD8G/jKJn/5mXRYRa/TuyItWWyphRQOrWphOU0NIDA8l SasfCHAJVw/N8iV+JeelNrYT27VyB+snmnOpj+2LueccwL7vqTTFEWjr9zW1yEH+YqnhXt WkdbfrbyqkhCS4ndQa9rZbeck/yI8VQzGEbD31ihRr/+VX6bYYQwxAJ7ixuuBFIRMd0j0M fSBnHeDUqtYvoo3AE8Zt1JHdG/0OMWwmpqmp3GmsEWFGjXS5ANtK31CR+9/nFkEVfnHmIR v14ay9hbeFpJRLlt2yynlcEXuxmVHF3w72U/v+Nsc1M13NiLg3ktJHcaoUWIzQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1622039549; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EUFvm25JwRkmyUtKYdfkDJzTMgOt57M113V+e0AvHfygEU66r2Tvv05/RsJEz14PuegC3E dU/To1cmvS9MBf8xIIT8gO5mYCLJadVsXckTZYL3A3H9n+QSwx4l8ckKkNBw4xp+3eKQNs 5IbESYa/0e7lx8Rapof3Mtjl/OdArPCVbi0byb/Vtw+CVtNI6t6TbgqKwr7aT1hsUXvkB4 T/XuCvoco7a36a5HkOXfsbuxKVtn7xmOMYsXINTcYdSZK3XYjSTT/l0QPS1TlQw+nmKqJ0 ew1xGvfIuVC0svZStpJoxxDspUme6AAV0aHmSlAkd4A/r8H+Y1D7FG0yOcQYRQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.93 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7CEB1A6BF X-Spam-Score: -2.93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: a0ZGz2h6ywVj Hi, Bone Baboon skribis: > This is an article from Hyperbola about the Rust trademark. It claims > that Rust has a freedom issue. > (Side note: =E2=80=9Cfreedom issue=E2=80=9D is not a helpful term as it cou= ld mean all sorts of things.) The trademark discussion refers to , which dates back to 2018. In recent years, Mozilla=E2=80=99s trademark policy changed, to the point t= hat distributions can use the name =E2=80=9CFirefox=E2=80=9D for packages they = provide: https://lwn.net/Articles/676799/ Before triggering an alarm, I would check what major distros, and Debian in particular, are doing about Rust; I have not heard of any concerns so far. If the Rust trademark turns out to be a concern, distros should try hard, collectively, to resolve it through dialog with Rust Foundation people. > If Rust does have a freedom issue then there is potential that it could > have an impact on Linux-libre. Recently there was a RFC for adding > support for Rust to the Linux kernel > . Linus Torvalds's response is > here . That=E2=80=99s a somewhat different topic. FWIW, I=E2=80=99m both excited = at the idea of having a memory-safe replacement for C gaining momentum, and frightened by the prospects of Rust being this replacement, for many reasons including: Rust does not have a good bootstrapping story, as we know all too well, Cargo encourages sloppy package distribution =C3=A0 la npm, Rust in the kernel would give a false sense of safety (it=E2=80=99s st= ill that big monolithic blob!), and the Rust community is very much anti-copyleft. Guix, related projects such as Mes, Gash, and the Shepherd, together with the Hurd, offer a very different and (to me) more appealing vision for a user-empowering, safer, more robust, and yet POSIX-compliant OS. Ludo=E2=80=99.