From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qH5PNInXHGLCMgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:09:13 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id cIABMYnXHGIfLgAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:09:13 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11EAB48164 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 15:09:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:57324 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOgi8-0002Lv-2q for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:09:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41332) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOgWV-00040s-Ho for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 08:57:11 -0500 Received: from [2a0c:e300::1] (port=35394 helo=hera.aquilenet.fr) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOgWT-0004mX-Dh for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 08:57:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5B61A4; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:57:05 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOBLdqFt9MmR; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from ribbon (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB1F0141; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Stefan Karrmann Subject: Re: announcement of minimal binary boot (mb2) with indirection table forth References: <20220223215402.GB93204@web.de> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 10 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 230 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:57:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20220223215402.GB93204@web.de> (Stefan Karrmann's message of "Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:54:03 +0100") Message-ID: <87k0dfccwf.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AC5B61A4 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[web.de]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[web.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a0c:e300::1 (failed) Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=2a0c:e300::1; envelope-from=ludo@gnu.org; helo=hera.aquilenet.fr X-Spam_score_int: -4 X-Spam_score: -0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1646057353; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=LZXcB8j2q9z/Wyl6QbhbnErtFU6mjlAqenFa7kalg4s=; b=UVnRkV5ZZMmLbz4SvY1BK3brtCqshNqLdw3t7ISIqPl+ss6ydX22SFvOrbwUejf/zpYTtT 0SRtrUiCTPUhmGZKzslHLzkXcQpO23QCjCQqXYA4o+vT8R0p+HW1ImQCHg+4kFkCsmAGRA kIWNwB+nQIPgnd3t0gJqTxYI/RTi2qrch5qYSdnqhIx1URbfYCoolvk0+z9YlzuzG8AGNr 8zEnqEfjmNJSPXNqCi8+9mBgDMQKNbYRAdVklmLgZyqbBGwLZMipy2XQ+xCnQz0z2pbW4R Q7kcgSywJpKfG0krV+04ndGBseKw+zmGUGB+BpFUMFJVRHgROLk8qntuc8kCfA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1646057353; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=FSdTEYvf57Qhk41Tkg8TsCUeRldmALtFb4HHyVzA/HKv6ALHg/SHUAO4LtKKIDzJQ4Uj2j kobrqJW90c21X/SwcsB/aLSEHHIEzQcUr0uAYROeq93q519912SWVChgFMsWdnUJNLOPmp ezLzvRiyDQKiGyOaUfZXlYI/1XW4DvBrGqXOdJUpQtnGpIZmKPZ2G0odH08N3nkgG4xhMk /OopC2o6f/1SZAlLnZXuYkSU9AUJWWXOaYIasmQ+LxpekxwvwmMQ/6+IZmReZTL1oJEnkt IQUVmWnGXD/osHVfFGfuPnIejzgVm6G5epjpKRINTB2Z6IZavnS4qSG+foyV+g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.90 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 11EAB48164 X-Spam-Score: -4.90 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: fLlljTnbHoVJ Hello, Stefan Karrmann skribis: > My hard binay seed is a monitor, which takes octal encoded octets (aka > bytes) as input, writes the octets in reverse order into the memory, and > finally jumps to the new code. It's size is: > > - for octal keyboard input on x86: 32 octets (!) > - for octal uninitialized serial input on x86: 34 octets > - for octal initialized serial input on x86: 41 octets > - for octal linux input on x86: 48 octets > > - for octet keyboard input on x86: 18 octets > This make sense, if we use the alt numpad input method. > > For those, who don't regard octal encoded octets as real source code, I > provide a second binary seed which implements a forth nucleus. I call it > itf or indirection table forth. > The sizes for this interpreter are much bigger than the sizes of the > monitors but still small in comparision to a boot sector (512 octets): > > - 75 octets for bios monitor on x86 > - **__81__** octets for bios standalone on x86 (!) > i.e. six of them fit easily into one boot sector! > For easier development we have: > - 102 octets for linux monitor on 32 bit x86 > - 101 octets for linux standalone on 32 bit x86 > > The bootstrap code in forth source code is still in its development phase. > I've compiled and tested the first colon words. The next task is a more > normal forth interpreter and a regular dictionary. This is truly impressive! I=E2=80=99m of those who don=E2=80=99t regard oc= tal-encoded octets as =E2=80=9Creal source=E2=80=9D :-), unless it=E2=80=99s short and = comes with extensive comments (which is more or less what stage0 does, IIRC). The tiny Forth kernel remains super small though, well done! Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.