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Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:34:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.94.249.234] (mx3.investici.org [82.94.249.234]) (Authenticated sender: cayetano.santos@inventati.org) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Y91Kr16TkzGq5n; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:34:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Cayetano Santos To: Suhail Singh Cc: Greg Hogan , Ricardo Wurmus , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: On the quest for a new release model In-Reply-To: <87cyhvbit6.fsf@gmail.com> (Suhail Singh's message of "Fri, 13 Dec 2024 12:21:09 -0500") References: <87a5d0dlm8.fsf@inventati.org> <87ttb7rds6.fsf@elephly.net> <87ed2b3ffk.fsf@gmail.com> <87seqrbmwy.fsf@gmail.com> <87cyhvo8dd.fsf@inventati.org> <87cyhvbit6.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.7; emacs 29.4 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 21:34:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87jzc3midt.fsf@inventati.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=82.94.249.234; envelope-from=csantosb@inventati.org; helo=latitanza.investici.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9F76578C3A X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -11.35 X-Spam-Score: -11.35 X-TUID: /Dj75rm+GuhH --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >ven. 13 d=C3=A9c. 2024 at 12:21, Suhail Singh w= rote: > Is my understanding of your scenario as summarized below correct, could > you please confirm? > > There are some individuals who would be able to follow the instructions > to install Guix. However, these individuals wouldn't understand the > instructions to perform a "guix pull". Further, the number of such > individuals is greater than zero, and you are proposing that we consider > their needs when determining the release process for Guix. Correct. Except the number of such individuals is huge. Some are doing research, and they don=E2=80=99t need any more complexity, that they see as= an extra overload : they=E2=80=99ll install guix, and start using it. That=E2= =80=99s it. The more it becomes complex, the less they=E2=80=99ll be prone to try. > Assuming my understanding above is correct, wouldn't you agree that > (even) for those individuals what's most important is that there is a > _stable_ and _not-very-outdated_ release available? Correct again. At least, on a first contact with guix: one release every 4 months, for example, means using on average a two months out to date guix, which is fine. Take julia, for example. The cycle is : install guix, check julia, outdated, forget guix and use julia installer. > My (and I believe Greg's) contention is that following a time-based > release process achieves these objectives more effectively than > following a feature-based release process. I=E2=80=99m not against: higher instances decide. Anything, but a 2 years o= ld release. Once again: sure, anything can be done, but it takes time and skills. And guix is already good and useful enough for most people to use it smoothly on a daily basis, solving lots of real life problems. Once they fall into the rabbit hole, they=E2=80=99ll pull substitutes from channels. But we need releases, first. =2D- Cayetano Santos GnuPG Key: https://meta.sr.ht/~csantosb.pgp FingerPrint: CCB8 1842 F9D7 058E CD67 377A BF5C DF4D F6BF 6682 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EARYKADUWIQTMuBhC+dcFjs1nN3q/XN9N9r9mggUCZ1yabhccY3NhbnRvc2JA aW52ZW50YXRpLm9yZwAKCRC/XN9N9r9mgiuVAPoCIlvpVlKBT8Hqaj2dhdaHkM9P ybfq5Z5wEFr1IFOjCgD6Agy5X8ddTdpJhmXALBU2MmmbxI+I+KGvp5rA1eexdQI= =0M8g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--