Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello Guix!

Chris contributed an article showing a neat hack to get ssh-agent
running on GNOME in lieu of GNOME Keyring’s custom implementation:

  https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/2018/customize-guixsd-use-stock-ssh-agent-everywhere/

Enjoy!  And thanks Chris!

Ludo’.

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Pierre Neidhardt]

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Great write up, Chris!

Too bad this article wasn't there when I got started with Guix a while
back, it would have been extremely helpful! :)

This kind of "tutorials" is useful enough it probably deserves a
mention in the Guix manual.  What do you think?

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt

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Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Pierre Neidhardt <ambrevar@gmail.com> writes:

> This kind of "tutorials" is useful enough it probably deserves a
> mention in the Guix manual.  What do you think?

The manual is mostly a reference.  I wouldn’t mind having a separate
Texinfo document as part of the repository that contains only tutorials
and examples, with cross references to the manual.

--
Ricardo

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Joshua Branson]

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> Pierre Neidhardt <ambrevar@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This kind of "tutorials" is useful enough it probably deserves a
>> mention in the Guix manual.  What do you think?
>
> The manual is mostly a reference.  I wouldn’t mind having a separate
> Texinfo document as part of the repository that contains only tutorials
> and examples, with cross references to the manual.

Speaking of that, I'm quite fond of how the arch wiki has a page for
many popular packages.  If I wanted to add the Emacs page to the guixSD
manual, would that be acceptable?

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Emacs

>
> --
> Ricardo

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Pierre Neidhardt]

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Joshua Branson <jbranso@fastmail.com> writes:

> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:
>
>> Pierre Neidhardt <ambrevar@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> This kind of "tutorials" is useful enough it probably deserves a
>>> mention in the Guix manual.  What do you think?
>>
>> The manual is mostly a reference.  I wouldn’t mind having a separate
>> Texinfo document as part of the repository that contains only tutorials
>> and examples, with cross references to the manual.
>
> Speaking of that, I'm quite fond of how the arch wiki has a page for
> many popular packages.  If I wanted to add the Emacs page to the guixSD
> manual, would that be acceptable?
>
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Emacs

This is the parabola wiki :)

This article originates from Arch Wiki, which in the mean time trimmed
much of the content that still shows on Parabola Wiki, replacing it with
pointers to the official manual instead.  I think it's a much saner
approach.

I believe Guix documentation should only deal with what is specific to
Guix.  In the case of Emacs, it could mention that many third-party
packages (those on ELPA, etc.) are readily available as Guix packages.

I'm currently dealing with TeXlive and some documentation about how to
install binaries, packages, and configure the whole thing could help a
lot I think.

In the line of what Ricardo suggested, this might not necessarily fit
the Guix manual.  It could fit another "Guix package reference" info
page.
Or maybe a dedicated section in the Guix manual?

--
Pierre Neidhardt

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Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Catonano]

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2018-05-28 13:28 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>:

>
> Pierre Neidhardt <ambrevar@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > This kind of "tutorials" is useful enough it probably deserves a
> > mention in the Guix manual.  What do you think?
>
> The manual is mostly a reference.  I wouldn’t mind having a separate
> Texinfo document as part of the repository that contains only tutorials
> and examples, with cross references to the manual.
>
> --
> Ricar



In this regard, I'd lie to suggest this talk, I think it's relevant
https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/legacy_docs/

It'd be very useful for Guile too and God knows for how many more GNU
projects

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Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Catonano,

> In this regard, I'd lie to suggest this talk, I think it's relevant
> https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/legacy_docs/
>
> It'd be very useful for Guile too and God knows for how many more GNU
> projects

Could you please summarize the key points and how they apply to this
discussion?

--
Ricardo

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Catonano]

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2018-05-29 15:42 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>:

>
> Hi Catonano,
>
> > In this regard, I'd lie to suggest this talk, I think it's relevant
> > https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/legacy_docs/
> >
> > It'd be very useful for Guile too and God knows for how many more GNU
> > projects
>
> Could you please summarize the key points and how they apply to this
> discussion?
>


Sure ! Thanks for asking ! 😃

I think a good starting point is this picture
https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/003/855/604/original/b02a794729c184ad.png

The key point of the talk is that the documentation usually illustrates the
technical features of a project

And the process of envisioning solutions for use cases is left to the reader

Instead, the documentation should start from specific use cases. It should
be an anthology of use cases

As for Guile, for example, Thomas Dankaert recently posted a question on
the guile user mailing list about how to use string as ports in calling
external commands; he wanted the error port of an external command to be a
string

The manual deals with input output in several locations scattered all around

Drawing a working solution for reading/writing is not exactly immediate

A bunch of examples would be more funcional, at least for some kinds of
readers/users

And input output is only one kind of use cases

Regarding Guix, having examples of use cases of using packages could be a
good starting point

So, finally, I think your idea of having a separate document providing a
different angle to using Guix is a good one

Other categories of use cases could be envisioned

It could cover not only the usage of specific packages but also some GuixSD
functionalities such as updating, setting up specific desktop environments,
services, reconfiguring

Those things are quite different from the common usage patterns of
mainstream distros and some reading-phobic people could use some quick
general examples to draw a general picture of Guix on their own

Maybe the traditional manual could be a further resource for those who want
to deepen their knowledge of Guix

How much am I ready to contribute to such a document ?

I don't know

I chimed in because I found interesting that a similar idea to that
illustrated in the talk came afloat here

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Reference manual + tutorials (was: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!)

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Catonano,

>> > In this regard, I'd lie to suggest this talk, I think it's relevant
>> > https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/legacy_docs/
>> >
>> > It'd be very useful for Guile too and God knows for how many more GNU
>> > projects
>>
>> Could you please summarize the key points and how they apply to this
>> discussion?
>>
>
>
> Sure ! Thanks for asking ! 😃
>
> I think a good starting point is this picture
> https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/003/855/604/original/b02a794729c184ad.png

[…]

Thank you for the summary!

I think that both styles are important.  A reference manual is great
when looking up information and to figure out uncommon workflows.  It’s
also good to have a single section that describes all features of a
tool, which otherwise would have to be extracted from user stories.

Having a document that is centered around user stories is also very
useful, as they make it easier for readers to see their own needs in
them and find the appropriate recipe that leads them to a solution more
quickly.

It would be great to have both!  I’d like the existing reference manual
to remain as the canonical description of all features of Guix, so that
an additional story-centered document (whether that be a dedicated
section or a separate file) can guide readers to more information if
they might need it.

How to begin, though…? :)

--
Ricardo

Re: Reference manual + tutorials (was: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!)

[Catonano]

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2018-05-29 16:57 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>:

>
> Hi Catonano,
>
> >> > In this regard, I'd lie to suggest this talk, I think it's relevant
> >> > https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/legacy_docs/
> >> >
> >> > It'd be very useful for Guile too and God knows for how many more GNU
> >> > projects
> >>
> >> Could you please summarize the key points and how they apply to this
> >> discussion?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sure ! Thanks for asking ! 😃
> >
> > I think a good starting point is this picture
> > https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/003/
> 855/604/original/b02a794729c184ad.png
>



> How to begin, though…? :)
>
>

The step 0 could be to copy and paste this post by Chris in a Texinfo
document

The step 1 could be to add a "post" about how to configure a desktop
environment based on openbox along the lines of what this post proposes
https://fedoramagazine.org/openbox-fedora/

And then who knows ☺

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Re: Reference manual + tutorials

[Julien Lepiller]

>> How to begin, though…? :)
> 
> The step 0 could be to copy and paste this post by Chris in a Texinfo
> document
> 
> The step 1 could be to add a "post" about how to configure a desktop
> environment based on openbox along the lines of what this post
> proposes
> https://fedoramagazine.org/openbox-fedora/
> 
> And then who knows ☺
> 
> 

Isn't the contributing section of the manual already a user story?

Re: Reference manual + tutorials

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:

> Isn't the contributing section of the manual already a user story?

It’s a meta story.  We have no stories about the use of Guix itself.

--
Ricardo

Re: Reference manual + tutorials

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> skribis:

> It would be great to have both!  I’d like the existing reference manual
> to remain as the canonical description of all features of Guix, so that
> an additional story-centered document (whether that be a dedicated
> section or a separate file) can guide readers to more information if
> they might need it.

I think it’s not all-or-nothing though.  Our manual could be better
structured and it could include more examples.

I like the “traditional” GNU manuals (libc, Emacs, Gnus, etc.), which
work very well for me, even though they’re only “locally
user-story-based”, so to speak.

Ludo’.

Re: Reference manual + tutorials

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> Hello!
>
> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> skribis:
>
>> It would be great to have both!  I’d like the existing reference manual
>> to remain as the canonical description of all features of Guix, so that
>> an additional story-centered document (whether that be a dedicated
>> section or a separate file) can guide readers to more information if
>> they might need it.
>
> I think it’s not all-or-nothing though.  Our manual could be better
> structured and it could include more examples.
>
> I like the “traditional” GNU manuals (libc, Emacs, Gnus, etc.), which
> work very well for me, even though they’re only “locally
> user-story-based”, so to speak.

Yes, this can work.  It’s hard for me to imagine where one would put
prose that resembles a tutorial in our current manual.  It currently
leans very heavily towards a reference manual, which discourages me from
adding elaborate examples.

There’s also the danger of interrupting the flow with too many big
inline examples.  Currently, it is easy to understand the big picture
because the prose isn’t separated by step for step instructions.

It would be sad to miss out on good tutorials just because they don’t
fit into the current manual; and it would be just as sad to clutter the
manual by filling it with tutorials that would seem out of place.

It’s difficult to strike the right balance.

--
Ricardo

Re: Reference manual + tutorials

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> skribis:

> Yes, this can work.  It’s hard for me to imagine where one would put
> prose that resembles a tutorial in our current manual.  It currently
> leans very heavily towards a reference manual, which discourages me from
> adding elaborate examples.
>
> There’s also the danger of interrupting the flow with too many big
> inline examples.  Currently, it is easy to understand the big picture
> because the prose isn’t separated by step for step instructions.

Yeah, I agree.

> It would be sad to miss out on good tutorials just because they don’t
> fit into the current manual; and it would be just as sad to clutter the
> manual by filling it with tutorials that would seem out of place.

Sure.  So I think those tutorials that don’t fit in the manual should
really have their own life, and that’d be great!

Ludo’.

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Divan Santana]

> Chris contributed an article showing a neat hack to get ssh-agent
> running on GNOME in lieu of GNOME Keyring’s custom implementation:
>
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/2018/customize-guixsd-use-stock-ssh-agent-everywhere/
>
> Enjoy!  And thanks Chris!

Thanks very much Chris. This is really appreciated.

Super useful and just what I was looking for.

These sort of articles are great for new comers like me.

Only... I can't get it to work. lol

When I place this file in my home:

~/ ᐅ ll .xsession
-rwxr-xr-x 1 admin users 91 May 28 21:12 .xsession
~/ ᐅ cat .xsession
#!/run/current-system/profile/bin/bash

# start ssh-agent system wide.
exec ssh-agent "$@"

The login crashes from slim.

How do I debug it?

slim.log contains nothing useful. Also don't see anything in xorg log.

Removing the file, I can login again.

Bit puzzled.
--
Divan

Re: Customize GuixSD: Use Stock SSH Agent Everywhere!

[Divan Santana]

Divan Santana <divan@santanas.co.za> writes:

>> Chris contributed an article showing a neat hack to get ssh-agent
>> running on GNOME in lieu of GNOME Keyring’s custom implementation:
>>
>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/2018/customize-guixsd-use-stock-ssh-agent-everywhere/
>>
>> Enjoy!  And thanks Chris!
>
> Thanks very much Chris. This is really appreciated.
>
> Super useful and just what I was looking for.
>
> These sort of articles are great for new comers like me.
>
> Only... I can't get it to work. lol
>
> When I place this file in my home:
>
> ~/ ᐅ ll .xsession
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 admin users 91 May 28 21:12 .xsession
> ~/ ᐅ cat .xsession
> #!/run/current-system/profile/bin/bash
>
> # start ssh-agent system wide.
> exec ssh-agent "$@"
>
> The login crashes from slim.
>
> How do I debug it?
>
> slim.log contains nothing useful. Also don't see anything in xorg log.
>
> Removing the file, I can login again.
>
> Bit puzzled.

OK so I figured out what was the issue.

I had to install the packages system wide. Perhaps some i3 or x related
packages? Most of my packages were only installed in my user profile.

Speaking of which, are there tips/advise on advantages/disadvantages of
installing certain packages system wide vs in a user profile? Or
multiple user profiles.
--
Divan