What Python IDE are you using?

What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi,

I've been using Emacs Elpy as my Python IDE for a long time now, but it's been failing to work properly for a while (currently, autocompletion doesn't work; before that linting was not working).

What do you use to program in Python? Is the IDE you use dependable or does it present these kinds of frequent problems too?

So far I've tried GNOME Builder, but it's pretty much like using Gedit: just syntax highlighting. GNOME Builder's features have never worked when I've tried them out.

I'm currently checking an IDE called Pyzo. And next will try Emacs lsp-mode. So if you have had a good/bad experience with these, I'd appreciate if you could comment about it.

Thanks in advance,


---
Luis Felipe López Acevedo
https://luis-felipe.gitlab.io/

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> I've been using Emacs Elpy as my Python IDE for a long time now, but
> it's been failing to work properly for a while (currently,
> autocompletion doesn't work; before that linting was not working).

I also experience problems with autocompletion at the moment. I’m
considering to switch back from company to auto-complete-mode, but I shy
away from the re-configuration effort at the moment.

> What do you use to program in Python? Is the IDE you use dependable or does it present these kinds of frequent problems too?

I always use Emacs for Python, just python-mode with pyflakes via
flycheck. But I’m only doing small stuff in Emacs (having switched to
Guile Scheme/Wisp for my hobby stuff).

I have not checked lsp for Python. My experience with lsp for Javascript
is that they are a bit sluggish — I prefer an Emacs native solution
where it exists.

Example for that (though other language): Working with js2-mode+eslint
via flycheck is superior to lsp/tide-mode in my opinion. I feel the
difference, because I’m in a codebase transitioning to Typescript, and
the user experience in plain Javascript with js2-mode is better. lsp has
more bells and whistles, but js2-mode is precise and instantly at my
fingers.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hello Dr. Arne

On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 05:28, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab@web.de> wrote:

> I also experience problems with autocompletion at the moment. I’m
> considering to switch back from company to auto-complete-mode, but I shy
> away from the re-configuration effort at the moment.

Good to know it's not just me.


> I have not checked lsp for Python. My experience with lsp for Javascript
> is that they are a bit sluggish — I prefer an Emacs native solution
> where it exists.
> 

> Example for that (though other language): Working with js2-mode+eslint
> via flycheck is superior to lsp/tide-mode in my opinion. I feel the
> difference, because I’m in a codebase transitioning to Typescript, and
> the user experience in plain Javascript with js2-mode is better. lsp has
> more bells and whistles, but js2-mode is precise and instantly at my
> fingers.

That's good to know too. I'll give LSP a try anyways and see. I really don't want to leave Emacs, but it would be nice to have a decent backup editor.

Thanks for commenting, Dr. Arne :)

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hello,

For what it's worth, I used Emacs with Elpy.

I have python-ipython, python-ipdb, and python-pdbpp installed, and to
debug I use put 'breakpoint()' in the code, along the
PYTHONBREAKPOINT=ipdb.sset_trace environment variable.

As an IPython configuration I have the lines:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
## lines of code to run at IPython startup.
c.InteractiveShellApp.exec_lines = ['%autoreload 2']

## A list of dotted module names of IPython extensions to load.
c.InteractiveShellApp.extensions = ['autoreload']
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Enabled in a ~/.ipython/profile_default/ipython_config.py file.

It works decently for me.

HTH,

Maxim

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi Maxim,

On Friday, August 26th, 2022 at 17:53, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> wrote:

> For what it's worth, I used Emacs with Elpy.
> 

> I have python-ipython, python-ipdb, and python-pdbpp installed, and to
> debug I use put 'breakpoint()' in the code, along the
> PYTHONBREAKPOINT=ipdb.sset_trace environment variable.
> 

> As an IPython configuration I have the lines:
> 

> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> 

> ## lines of code to run at IPython startup.
> c.InteractiveShellApp.exec_lines = ['%autoreload 2']
> 

> ## A list of dotted module names of IPython extensions to load.
> c.InteractiveShellApp.extensions = ['autoreload']
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 

> 

> Enabled in a ~/.ipython/profile_default/ipython_config.py file.
> 

> It works decently for me.

Yeah, I like it. I'm glad I have autocompletion back.


> HTH,

It does help me to see that I don't know much about debugging techniques :)

Cheers,

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Csepp]

Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> Hi,
>
> I've been using Emacs Elpy as my Python IDE for a long time now, but
> it's been failing to work properly for a while (currently,
> autocompletion doesn't work; before that linting was not working).
>
> What do you use to program in Python? Is the IDE you use dependable or does it present these kinds of frequent problems too?
>
> So far I've tried GNOME Builder, but it's pretty much like using
> Gedit: just syntax highlighting. GNOME Builder's features have never
> worked when I've tried them out.
>
> I'm currently checking an IDE called Pyzo. And next will try Emacs
> lsp-mode. So if you have had a good/bad experience with these, I'd
> appreciate if you could comment about it.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> ---
> Luis Felipe López Acevedo
> https://luis-felipe.gitlab.io/
>
> [2. application/pgp-keys; publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc]...
>
> [[End of PGP Signed Part]]

kakoune + kak-lsp + python-lsp-server + python-black + mypy, maybe a
kakoune editorconfig plugin too

I load it in a guix shell and blamo, nice editor with pretty much every
IDE functionality you could dream of.

I've used this for multiple projects at uni, IMHO it works pretty well.

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi raingloom,

On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:34, Csepp <raingloom@riseup.net> wrote:

> kakoune + kak-lsp + python-lsp-server + python-black + mypy, maybe a
> kakoune editorconfig plugin too
> 

> I load it in a guix shell and blamo, nice editor with pretty much every
> IDE functionality you could dream of.
> 

> I've used this for multiple projects at uni, IMHO it works pretty well.

Oh, I didn't know about kakoune. I'll put it on the list. Thanks, raingloom :)

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 16:52, Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> wrote:

> Hi raingloom,
> 

> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:34, Csepp raingloom@riseup.net wrote:
> 

> > kakoune + kak-lsp + python-lsp-server + python-black + mypy, maybe a
> > kakoune editorconfig plugin too
> > 

> > I load it in a guix shell and blamo, nice editor with pretty much every
> > IDE functionality you could dream of.
> > 

> > I've used this for multiple projects at uni, IMHO it works pretty well.
> 

> Oh, I didn't know about kakoune. I'll put it on the list. Thanks, raingloom :)

I think I'm going to explore vim further as my fallback editor. It seems like that's the first step to understand kakoune (I couldn't get started with kakoune Get started! document :]).

raingloom, did you move from vim to kakoune? If that was the case, did you found something annoying when programming Python in vim?

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Csepp]

Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 16:52, Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi raingloom,
>> 
>
>> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:34, Csepp raingloom@riseup.net wrote:
>> 
>
>> > kakoune + kak-lsp + python-lsp-server + python-black + mypy, maybe a
>> > kakoune editorconfig plugin too
>> > 
>
>> > I load it in a guix shell and blamo, nice editor with pretty much every
>> > IDE functionality you could dream of.
>> > 
>
>> > I've used this for multiple projects at uni, IMHO it works pretty well.
>> 
>
>> Oh, I didn't know about kakoune. I'll put it on the list. Thanks, raingloom :)
>
> I think I'm going to explore vim further as my fallback editor. It
> seems like that's the first step to understand kakoune (I couldn't get
> started with kakoune Get started! document :]).
>
> raingloom, did you move from vim to kakoune? If that was the case, did you found something annoying when programming Python in vim?
>
> [2. application/pgp-keys; publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc]...
>
> [[End of PGP Signed Part]]

I went through the vim tutorial a few years ago, tried neovim for a
while, but haven't used it in years.  I tend to switch between editors.
Before Kakoune I used Acme for a long time, which inspired some features
of Kakoune.  I also use Emacs quite a bit.
I tried Kakoune mostly because I really liked the ideas in Acme but
didn't like how anti-keyboard it was.  The simple orthogonal
configuration language and its focus on multiple selections were very
appealing too.  I don't like old editors with crusted up config
languages and UX conventions.  I could never really "git gud" at neovim,
so I abandoned it, but Kakoune just "clicked" after 1-2 afternoons of
noodling around in it.

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 07:57, Csepp <raingloom@riseup.net> wrote:

> Luis Felipe luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com writes:
> 

> > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> > On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 16:52, Luis Felipe luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com wrote:
> > 

> > > Hi raingloom,
> > 

> > > On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:34, Csepp raingloom@riseup.net wrote:
> > 

> > > > kakoune + kak-lsp + python-lsp-server + python-black + mypy, maybe a
> > > > kakoune editorconfig plugin too
> > 

> > > > I load it in a guix shell and blamo, nice editor with pretty much every
> > > > IDE functionality you could dream of.
> > 

> > > > I've used this for multiple projects at uni, IMHO it works pretty well.
> > 

> > > Oh, I didn't know about kakoune. I'll put it on the list. Thanks, raingloom :)
> > 

> > I think I'm going to explore vim further as my fallback editor. It
> > seems like that's the first step to understand kakoune (I couldn't get
> > started with kakoune Get started! document :]).
> > 

> > raingloom, did you move from vim to kakoune? If that was the case, did you found something annoying when programming Python in vim?
> > 

> > [2. application/pgp-keys; publickey - luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com - 0x12DE1598.asc]...
> > 

> > [[End of PGP Signed Part]]
> 

> 

> I went through the vim tutorial a few years ago, tried neovim for a
> while, but haven't used it in years. I tend to switch between editors.
> Before Kakoune I used Acme for a long time, which inspired some features
> of Kakoune. I also use Emacs quite a bit.
> I tried Kakoune mostly because I really liked the ideas in Acme but
> didn't like how anti-keyboard it was. The simple orthogonal
> configuration language and its focus on multiple selections were very
> appealing too. I don't like old editors with crusted up config
> languages and UX conventions. I could never really "git gud" at neovim,
> so I abandoned it, but Kakoune just "clicked" after 1-2 afternoons of
> noodling around in it.

I see... Thanks again, raingloom :)

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Fredrik Salomonsson]

Hi,

Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
> What do you use to program in Python? Is the IDE you use dependable or does it present these kinds of frequent problems too?

I generally use emacs + eglot [0]. It works great out of the box for me,
zero configuration on my part. I can't speak much about speed as the
python programming I do is over tramp, which tends to slow things down.

[0] https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot

-- 
s/Fred[re]+i[ck]+/Fredrik/g

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi Fredrik,

On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 21:20, Fredrik Salomonsson <plattfot@posteo.net> wrote:

> I generally use emacs + eglot [0]. It works great out of the box for me,
> zero configuration on my part. I can't speak much about speed as the
> python programming I do is over tramp, which tends to slow things down.

Thanks, Fredrik :)

I tried both emacs-lsp-mode and eglot today, but autocompletion didn't work in any of them. They both seem to use company-mode by default, the same as emacs-elpy. Is autocompletion working for you? If yes, what version of Guix are you using? (I'm on Guix System 3f17158, emacs-company 0.9.13).

Using M-x completion-at-point works though, but I prefer autocompletion. 


I think I found emacs-lsp-mode faster than eglot, and the autodocumentation/help in the latter was kind of distracting because it displays too much information for the symbol at point, which makes the minibuffer change hight frequently.

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 23:39, Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 21:20, Fredrik Salomonsson plattfot@posteo.net wrote:
> 

> > I generally use emacs + eglot [0]. It works great out of the box for me,
> > zero configuration on my part. I can't speak much about speed as the
> > python programming I do is over tramp, which tends to slow things down.
> 

> I tried both emacs-lsp-mode and eglot today, but autocompletion didn't work in any of them. They both seem to use company-mode by default, the same as emacs-elpy. Is autocompletion working for you? If yes, what version of Guix are you using? (I'm on Guix System 3f17158, emacs-company 0.9.13).

Hmm, I just ran Emacs in three separate guix containers, one for an LSP mode-based IDE, one for an Eglot-based IDE and one for an Elpy-based IDE. In each of these containers, I ran "emacs -q -l CONFIG.el" to avoid loading any "init.el" file, and instead load a specific, minimal configuration file for each IDE. Autocompletion worked in all of them.

So it seems something in my "~/.congig/emacs/init.el" is not right anymore for my current generation of Emacs packages...

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Fredrik Salomonsson]

Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 23:39, Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 21:20, Fredrik Salomonsson plattfot@posteo.net wrote:
>> 
>
>> > I generally use emacs + eglot [0]. It works great out of the box for me,
>> > zero configuration on my part. I can't speak much about speed as the
>> > python programming I do is over tramp, which tends to slow things down.
>> 
>
>> I tried both emacs-lsp-mode and eglot today, but autocompletion didn't work in any of them. They both seem to use company-mode by default, the same as emacs-elpy. Is autocompletion working for you? If yes, what version of Guix are you using? (I'm on Guix System 3f17158, emacs-company 0.9.13).
>
> Hmm, I just ran Emacs in three separate guix containers, one for an LSP mode-based IDE, one for an Eglot-based IDE and one for an Elpy-based IDE. In each of these containers, I ran "emacs -q -l CONFIG.el" to avoid loading any "init.el" file, and instead load a specific, minimal configuration file for each IDE. Autocompletion worked in all of them.
>
> So it seems something in my "~/.congig/emacs/init.el" is not right anymore for my current generation of Emacs packages...

Yeah, sounds like something in your config is breaking the autocomplete.
I don't use company anymore but instead I use corfu. I am using guix
92b25a0 on a foreign distro, with emacs-eglot@1.8 and emacs-corfu@0.26.
And emacs-pgtk-native-comp@28.1.90-224.03fe258 from the flat channel
d95204c. And autocomplete works fine on my end.

> I think I found emacs-lsp-mode faster than eglot, and the autodocumentation/help in the latter was kind of distracting because it displays too much information for the symbol
> at point, which makes the minibuffer change hight frequently.

Right, I forgot a do actually have some configuration associated with eglot.

try 

  (setf eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p nil)

That should take care of the minibuffer issue. As I also was quite
annoyed with that.

-- 
s/Fred[re]+i[ck]+/Fredrik/g

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 01:09, Fredrik Salomonsson <plattfot@posteo.net> wrote:
> 

> Yeah, sounds like something in your config is breaking the autocomplete.
> I don't use company anymore but instead I use corfu. I am using guix
> 92b25a0 on a foreign distro, with emacs-eglot@1.8 and emacs-corfu@0.26.
> And emacs-pgtk-native-comp@28.1.90-224.03fe258 from the flat channel
> d95204c. And autocomplete works fine on my end.

I didn't know about corfu, I'm going to try it out.


> > I think I found emacs-lsp-mode faster than eglot, and the autodocumentation/help in the latter was kind of distracting because it displays too much information for the symbol
> > at point, which makes the minibuffer change hight frequently.
> 

> try
> 

> (setf eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p nil)
> 

> That should take care of the minibuffer issue. As I also was quite
> annoyed with that.

Thanks again, Fredrik.

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[david larsson]

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On 2022-08-23 00:29, Luis Felipe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've been using Emacs Elpy as my Python IDE for a long time now, but
> it's been failing to work properly for a while (currently,
> autocompletion doesn't work; before that linting was not working).
> 
> What do you use to program in Python? Is the IDE you use dependable or
> does it present these kinds of frequent problems too?
> 
> So far I've tried GNOME Builder, but it's pretty much like using
> Gedit: just syntax highlighting. GNOME Builder's features have never
> worked when I've tried them out.
> 
> I'm currently checking an IDE called Pyzo. And next will try Emacs
> lsp-mode. So if you have had a good/bad experience with these, I'd
> appreciate if you could comment about it.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> ---
> Luis Felipe López Acevedo
> https://luis-felipe.gitlab.io/

I use emacs with plugins like jupyter, flake8, magit, and jedi that 
gives autocompletion for Python, including from org-mode files and 
org-src buffers - see attached screenshot. It works nicely so far.

I have modified some emacs plugins a bit, and am currently working on 
refining things for a setup that gives nice auto-completion for Python, 
Javascript and Guile, which can be used from Emacs with a simple 
installation of a manifest, and maybe a home-configuration in the 
future.

I use a custom channel, waiting to also have related packages be refined 
enough to be submitted to guix master.

https://gitlab.com/methuselah-0/my-guix-packages

My current emacs config will almost certainly see some new commits be 
pushed to https://gitlab.com/methuselah-0/my-guix-packages in the 
following weeks.

Auto-completion, with code-signatures, jump-to-definition etc is working 
and possible, but not with a simple out-of-the-box installation from 
Guix yet. Though Im working on it :-)

Best regards,
David

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Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[david larsson]

> 
> My current emacs config will almost certainly see some new commits be
> pushed to https://gitlab.com/methuselah-0/my-guix-packages in the
> following weeks.

I meant here: https://github.com/methuselah-0/my-emacs-config

Re: What Python IDE are you using?

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi David,


On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 18:33, david larsson <david.larsson@selfhosted.xyz> wrote:

> I use emacs with plugins like jupyter, flake8, magit, and jedi that
> gives autocompletion for Python, including from org-mode files and
> org-src buffers - see attached screenshot. It works nicely so far.

Thanks. Actually, Emacs Elpy uses several common packages used to program Python in Emacs. It's just that it started failing for me a couple of months ago for different reasons so I thought it would be good to find a fallback editor.

However, I found out that there was something in my monolithic Emacs init.el causing autocompletion to fail. I haven't been able to pinpoint the configuration snippet that is causing the problem though. So I just ditched that init.el and started using different, short initialization files depending on the need, and now I can use Emacs Elpy again normaly.


> I have modified some emacs plugins a bit, and am currently working on
> refining things for a setup that gives nice auto-completion for Python,
> Javascript and Guile, which can be used from Emacs with a simple
> installation of a manifest, and maybe a home-configuration in the
> future.

Oh, yeah, I use Emacs launched from guix shell environments specific to my projects.


> I use a custom channel, waiting to also have related packages be refined
> enough to be submitted to guix master.
> 

> https://gitlab.com/methuselah-0/my-guix-packages
> 

> My current emacs config will almost certainly see some new commits be
> pushed to https://gitlab.com/methuselah-0/my-guix-packages in the
> following weeks.
> 

> Auto-completion, with code-signatures, jump-to-definition etc is working
> and possible, but not with a simple out-of-the-box installation from
> Guix yet. Though Im working on it :-)

I think it is already possible. As far as I know, Emacs Elpy enables those features: linting, autocompletion, function signatures displayed for the function at point, displaying function documentation, and jumping to definition, some refactoring, ...

My current Elpy configuration is just this:

;; Enable Elpy IDE.
;; https://elpy.readthedocs.io/
;;
(elpy-enable)
(setq elpy-rpc-python-command "python3")  ; Is this still needed?

;; Use Flycheck instead of Flymake
;; (Flymake makes Emacs unresponsive unpredictably).
;;
(when (load "flycheck" t t)
  (setq elpy-modules (delq 'elpy-module-flymake elpy-modules))
  (add-hook 'elpy-mode-hook 'flycheck-mode))


Cheers,

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