From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id gMv9Bh+2pGDbcAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 08:54:23 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id MNG1Ah+2pGCYFwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 06:54:23 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD38825BA3 for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 08:54:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:53136 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljG61-0004XN-Mv for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 02:54:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljG5s-0004X0-UG for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2021 02:54:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40024) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljG5s-0006yi-98; Wed, 19 May 2021 02:54:12 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:19b:d9a0:45b5:a14a:5c75:5737] (port=53846 helo=meije) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ljG5r-0008N7-TM; Wed, 19 May 2021 02:54:12 -0400 From: Mathieu Othacehe To: Christopher Baines Subject: Re: Bringing substitutes from the Guix Build Coordinator to users References: <878s4ye116.fsf@cbaines.net> <87lf8bbzbl.fsf@cbaines.net> <87wnrv68h7.fsf@gnu.org> <87im3fbrq7.fsf@cbaines.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 08:54:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87im3fbrq7.fsf@cbaines.net> (Christopher Baines's message of "Tue, 18 May 2021 23:29:52 +0100") Message-ID: <87eee3tdrh.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 48435@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621407262; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=6qNYiTcqrRuo+YhGf4C87cGYQ9XbffamF8svjR/O3Yo=; b=TIfIW7IYp9BG7NdWMVLZY9wipYoZfRzn/CeJMn5cQ++vMuwV4Bh8Oo1zssYLaYE+KNjD65 T/iKX22mHtXP0i5gPXpavQPF4xW2kffQZdNVW25LxtkPHGmmXzjavgSNbinWAMj9Q3cdjT C+TA1UnnLHtTw+51aF5c81KnBlIWHeZlYf9KAThJTr26pT6/3FTNlMGqzQAcRtL3NmeKVe tz2P2NMoWbmot6nI+mOK3+04HDJIWraR3h/aGLvxGpzVPwfGyBqCNh2FSHY0uVngj7NnjK Aqjj9g1QjslPoSN6XJiveFqnsvFDHm6X3NpKq+J0M0BIAW69HbnOg6UKFBfL9Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621407262; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=rDpFa+KsSum7ogJ5w8p5kBSSrGJhUllp901+Q5t+BbYoGX/XPYCi+fHDJNdV+vsrApalkv 9T0587qvVNmbEtGslYf3gILZtL7IJ4fM5XoVVpDu+muwqSCDcFLRzPNU1Bk+1010/B4MDT aEHmV4f4lW/gktdi3DNci/rmrV70W5kdj5pB20yt0Nh8WrF+CEMUwOC9N+wPLUBfIrAzpI qBYSNP2vTlBkwKhfC+iwJKTLolyT70QQ8PjLDmMuWJNsMEGR8g/ZrR1PVw7tm2pJtAEoEG IT+WgX4iw5hOXby+Bq3udJjQnAhyMSBffHVhOlzr20//o7b5z8fRR3uX490uNA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.94 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BD38825BA3 X-Spam-Score: -2.94 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: UYbPRu0I2Svn Hey Chris, > That sounds sensible. On the specific name, given this is just about > substitutes, and at least in my opinion has nothing to do with > continuous integration, maybe picking just another word would avoid > thinking too much, it could be bordeaux, or hippo, or anything > really. As you say, stability and not being tied to a particular machine > is the important thing. The substitutes coverage is one indicator to take into account but there are many others. For instance, the evaluation speed, the failed evaluation count, the average evaluation builds completion time, the availability of the connected build machines between other things. Deploying a solution that builds substitutes is fine, but as soon as it is deployed and accessible to all Guix users, the system administrators will have to monitor it and maintain it in the long run. Having two heterogeneous build infrastructures on two sets of machines, providing different metrics will make the update and maintenance of those machines harder. I hear your point about K-out-of-N policy and it also makes sense to me. However, we should maybe consider doing it using two similar infrastructures. Thanks, Mathieu