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Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:35:21 -0400 (EDT) References: <87il1mupco.fsf@meson> <87cyruqcfe.fsf@cbaines.net> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.13; emacs 28.2 From: Ian Eure To: Christopher Baines Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:06:27 -0700 In-reply-to: <87cyruqcfe.fsf@cbaines.net> Message-ID: <87edcaug07.fsf@meson> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.156; envelope-from=ian@retrospec.tv; helo=fhigh5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1013E1520B X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: NYcr1aBTHxWN Christopher Baines writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > > Ian Eure writes: > >> Hi Guixy people, >> >> I=E2=80=99d never heard of SWH before I started hacking on Guix last=20 >> fall, and >> it struck me as rather a good idea. However, I=E2=80=99ve seen some=20 >> things >> lately which have soured me on them. >> >> They appear to be using the archive to build LLMs: >> https://www.softwareheritage.org/2024/02/28/responsible-ai-with-starcode= r2/ >> >> I was also distressed to see how poorly they treated a=20 >> developer who >> wished to update their name: >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/4968198-the-software-heritag >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/5052044-the-software-heritag >> >> GPL=E2=80=99d software I=E2=80=99ve created has been packaged for Guix, = which I=20 >> assume >> means it=E2=80=99s been included in SWH. While I=E2=80=99m dealing with= their=20 >> (IMO: >> unethical) opt-out process, I likely also need to stop new=20 >> copies from >> being uploaded again in the future. >> >> Is there a way to indicate, in a Guix package, that it should=20 >> *never* >> be included in SWH? > > Not currently, and I don't really see the point in such a=20 > mechanism. If > you really never want them to store your code, then you need to=20 > license > it accordingly (and not make it free software). > I don=E2=80=99t want my code in SWH *because* it=E2=80=99s free. A primary= use of=20 LLMs is laundering freely licensed software into proprietary,=20 commercial projects through "AI" code completion and generation.=20 Any Free software in an LLM training set can and will be used in=20 violation of its license, without a clear path for the author to=20 seek recourse. I deleted my code off Github and abandoned it=20 completely for this exact reason, and am deeply irked to be going=20 through this nonsense again. A more salient question may be: Is there a process within Guix=20 (either the program or the organization) which uploads source to=20 SWH? Or does it rely on SWH indepently? If the latter, my problem is likely solved by blocking SWH at my=20 network edge and opting out of their archive (or trying to) and=20 the downstream training models they=E2=80=99ve already put it in. If the=20 former, the only control I currently have to protect my license is=20 removing packages from Guix which contain it. I don=E2=80=99t want that=20 outcome. Noting also that the path here seems to be=20 SWH->huggingface->bigcode training set, and the opt-out process=20 for the training set appears to be a complete sham. To opt-out,=20 you must create a Github Issue; only one opt-out has *ever* been=20 processed, and there are 200+ sitting there, many with no response=20 for nearly a year[1]. I want no part of any of this. >> Is there a way to tell Guix to never download source from SWH? > > Also no, and it's probably best to do this at the network level=20 > on your > systems/network if you want this to be the case. > I=E2=80=99ll investigate this, though I=E2=80=99d prefer if there was a way= to=20 configure source mirrors in the Guix daemon. > Skipping back to this though: > >> I was also distressed to see how poorly they treated a=20 >> developer who >> wished to update their name: >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/4968198-the-software-heritag >> https://cohost.org/arborelia/post/5052044-the-software-heritag > > This is probably worth thinking about as Guix is in a similar=20 > situation > regarding publishing source code, and people potentially wanting=20 > to > change historical source code both in things Guix packages and=20 > Guix > itself. > > Like Software Heritage, there's cryptographical implications for > rewriting the Git history and modifying source tarballs or nars=20 > that > contain source code. > > We have 17TiB of compressed source code and built software=20 > stored for > bordeaux.guix.gnu.org now and we should probably work out how to=20 > handle > people asking for things to be removed or changed (for any and=20 > all > reasons). > > It's probably worth working out our position on this in advance=20 > of > someone asking. > Yes, I agree that Guix needs a better solution for this. Thanks, =E2=80=94 Ian [1]: https://github.com/bigcode-project/opt-out-v2/issues