From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id mOrcDk7B+GP2MAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:53:18 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id GAXpDU7B+GPs5QAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:53:18 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C134636D38 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:53:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVT-0004Qh-Tt; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:53:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVS-0004QT-RQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:53:03 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVS-000249-Jn for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:53:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVS-0006cN-GT for bug-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:53:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source' Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 13:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61684 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Simon Tournier Cc: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 61684@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61684-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61684.167724676825417 (code B ref 61684); Fri, 24 Feb 2023 13:53:02 +0000 Received: (at 61684) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2023 13:52:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVE-0006bt-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:52:48 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com ([209.85.160.170]:37710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pVYVC-0006bf-Bk for 61684@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:52:46 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id r5so4670013qtp.4 for <61684@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:52:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:references:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q1t92TCc2ciDA/JvDEdjRhMF9QHKRL8Z+OHZgQvl2yU=; b=lDEGf4/RDqe+Tv/AYpwuPugYPoL52cuxUQO3tNIz9ydxnF2Y/tG1nsfMOgX8kVozV+ XjFJaHIVIMp2RExZjzrRV0D5DstpuAaTaO62stq3JQcWklOpxWOpcb5kQHYsgZn9EUK6 +W8/Xi4pdNvcz1dPmVHnKLe9V2lKRSpS8ud/4Y6dgQSTiHltA+6uoMJLk/e2cx9Lv35w niLhH1cW4QIQJUoAftvjpxSuQc7yA3fPMfUtsl3AGJi+eUdq2H9DY0JKGU+JBU+H3Snz cWvhCQNUO0TcHdkrGE/uZIvuONJFvgVuTUVJi7nXIYhHR1zWav8pvqMbUc/+2n2MWTZf kSOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:references:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q1t92TCc2ciDA/JvDEdjRhMF9QHKRL8Z+OHZgQvl2yU=; b=qzSyMiXcfDGhk5ezrwt+s/RLHxDM5DRBWY7AtiKFxdMz+w4xV04gxpTPaEbd/750tI S3jcilnu6ekT3riN6NVx1sTsottXgsZX7qIxL3H0ohqev+NfAZu8gGbyg64yHUgxFYLr Pc5RVsAh1sFR0qwFvHsiW27K19EB7RqFSe5xvzJFg1bKpElQR1ST6BXfhBd/u8q8jhSj cuMYMYNGJbgLTj/PuauOSWPLkH1Yqo+SIIhppLMJxzCgQUXxFojW74mp2Y4MA+XEXsK6 aIUZDLK7FSg/zZJTwY6KAiU+8zV76Aklc94HuxtCNnzTU66ZUkInVqZWO6rJaGG+Sdgk +IsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKV65NmjUyZWFVVjCzFIW0LH0EsE7hrqFKWBJsqcyZBBxo0kl41u c3Hs1bM5QJOPFVM/2HKGAZp763PpQpv8vw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+M+Nc9q+0wqMIX4r3M1hJYIIA6R1ZrmdVOag/Ahym8SrpGyQtt67qBBYfd55vhW+hx8jH0dw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:108:b0:3b8:6a92:c8d6 with SMTP id u8-20020a05622a010800b003b86a92c8d6mr27813876qtw.60.1677246760601; Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hurd (dsl-141-27.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.141.27]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n206-20020a3740d7000000b007425dade624sm2417583qka.41.2023.02.24.05.52.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@gmail.com> <871qmg79u7.fsf@gnu.org> <87356whvaa.fsf@gmail.com> <875ybrmfuv.fsf@gmail.com> <87h6vbgpxf.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1onkwm0.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:52:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87y1onkwm0.fsf@gmail.com> (Simon Tournier's message of "Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:43:03 +0100") Message-ID: <87cz5zgogo.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1677246798; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JUb55d3GIoJAl7Sjbr0zYkH8jwxxXmxlzGroFLp/LXCCzNFITJJup6rCJfmhE8LVLS9CS7 pULIsQw2+dzVLWeRVEHlqPlOlQS0+/+oLu5KLLVMjwiFCkGbxU3GtlXJUP4egZxgEd1hEt Gk1Pc5BDjhLFs1o2wOJgAMV9F4A/+SYxQQEgIX7Jf1AwRr/GEBOisdpH+Yh09q+yOI7F2n MFGX2hFd5DPNSVBC0+I6Y2OiMsnKnDhpdGKVUbCJrOm/LKeEvOQXGqHGNU/Rffrgr/bCoy EcZfFO44lQaisLy9f/vPA20QXxx4iFBLz8hhicwIzpirNQMHEwa23uExI4pTyg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="lDEGf4/R"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1677246798; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=q1t92TCc2ciDA/JvDEdjRhMF9QHKRL8Z+OHZgQvl2yU=; b=GMnLn0ElOeJSVRuweNXk7yCaUQZZnVMmhdgjbNcPw7AEku1LHhJq2oHelkeASQsdTI9pa/ lQoB4JH8OoH18XTx/cgZVLCThtZKFjT8GqmRFNWjMoCa1IIUxc/yc+3vLkKpsL0kPn0+iT elK8K0kPlPzokNAOJn+7TxChW82DwHH07EMYgTGnq5L8UXLgKS2HNYv7+Xk2xj5Tldmqk4 8tzT6nx2yRnnIf4clTvAt7BBSg//PwF2Wbil6RT9VSR7dNZKhVIAx8q8x7txUIgvKMV1HJ MgW0DbFFatULfjTQwWxTU/RdN1ljY7GFQrY7ujVDwFOi06WtkKa1Z7Wz6fI2dw== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Spam-Score: -2.08 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C134636D38 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="lDEGf4/R"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-TUID: Ww/sI6jCxppf Hi Simon, Simon Tournier writes: > Hi Maxim, > > On ven., 24 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 08:21, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > >>> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing >>> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to >>> generate complex transformations. >> >> Could we gather more information about that use case? It needs to be >> clear if we are to constrain the design (solution) by it. > > Well, I do not have the details. Just to mention two presentations > [1,2] exposing how transformations help for them. > > 1: > 2: > > There they intensively uses transformations. For instance, p.4 of [2] > it reads, > > guix environment --pure --with-input=3Dpastix-5=3Dpastix-5-mkl \ > --with-input=3Dmumps-scotch-openmpi=3Dmumps-mkl-scotch-openmpi \ > --with-input=3Dopenblas=3Dmkl --with-git-url=3Dgcvb=3D$HOME/src/g= cvb \ > --with-commit=3Dgcvb=3D40d88ba241db4c71ac3e1fe8024fba4d906f45b1 \ > --preserve=3D^SLURM --ad-hoc bash coreutils inetutils findutils \ > grep sed bc openssh python python-psutil gcvb scab slurm@19 openm= pi > > For this specific example, the order may or not matter. The point is > that HPC folks are intensively using transformations and, since the > order currently matters, enforcing one specific order could break their > workflow, and even could make impossible what is currently possible. I'd argue that in the above case, the order doesn't or shouldn't matter. The user clearly intended for them to be additive. > Quoting Ludo, > > (this is crucial for our= HPC > users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have n= o idea > how far they go once you give them the tool :-)) > > > > and I agree with =C2=AB you have no idea how far they go once you give th= em > the tool :-)) =C2=BB. It seems a bit hypothetical at this point, so I wouldn't want to cripple the design by it. Sure, users will find by experimentation how to accomplish something, perhaps twisting it in odd ways to, but in my opinion if the API was consistent it'd be much easier for everyone to accomplish what they are after. *If* a valid use case of the current quirky behavior is discovered, we could consider adding a '--order-sensitive' option or similar to restore that behavior, I just don't think it should be the default. > For what my opinion is worth. :-) Thanks for sharing it! --=20 Thanks, Maxim