From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: myglc2 Subject: bug#22600: 'Globally-Visible Packages' not shown by 'M-x guix-installed-packages' Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:30:28 -0500 Message-ID: <87bn7p5mbf.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87zivb6xyy.fsf@gmail.com> <87egcmrhjj.fsf@gmail.com> <87d1s6u870.fsf@gnu.org> <87io1y7h1r.fsf@gmail.com> <871t8lbsg6.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50224) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKYb-0008IC-MF for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:31:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKYY-0003ou-Bg for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:31:05 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKYY-0003oq-8R for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:31:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKYY-0000q6-4W for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:31:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87zivb6xyy.fsf@gmail.com> Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-Message-ID: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50016) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKXa-00089u-Ti for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:30:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKXX-0003b1-Iz for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:30:02 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:38018) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKXX-0003au-B8 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:29:59 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTKXV-00068R-Kt for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 03:29:57 +0100 Received: from c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([73.167.118.254]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 03:29:57 +0100 Received: from myglc2 by c-73-167-118-254.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 03:29:57 +0100 List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+gcggb-bug-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: bug-guix-bounces+gcggb-bug-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: 22600@debbugs.gnu.org Alex Kost writes: > myglc2 (2016-02-09 05:29 +0300) wrote: > [...] >> My concern is that this experience might leave a new user thinking, >> "Geez, I know back in the fog of the USB install I added packages. What >> kind of package manager is this? It doesn't show me the packages that I >> painfully typed in using zile at the console". IMO this is the kind of >> doubt that can undermine confidence during the critical first few hours >> of software test driving and lead a user to abandon the experment. > > I would say that a user should get acquainted with the basic concepts of > Guix before using it. I think per-user package management is one of such > concepts, and it is described in the beginning of (info "(guix) Features") > section of the manual. > Per-user features are very important for guix adopters. But as described in my other post, global (aka system) features are equally important for guixSD adopters. It is fantastic that guix + guixSD support both use cases. OTOH, these use cases appear to be fighting against each other. This makes the documentation hard to write and understand. It makes the user interface hard to do. If we let the conflict get out of control it will confuse the marketplace and undermine guix/SD. So we need to embrace and understand this natural yin and yang in a great solution that spans user, package, distribution, and system managment. If we can do that I think guix/SD will be very successful. >> But, wouldn't it be better to combine these functions so even a duummy >> will see all the packages? > > As I suggested in the previous mail, we can add "M-x guix-system-packages". > Maybe it would be good to add "M-x guix-user-packages", or maybe name them: > > - guix-installed-system-packages (for /run/current-system/profile) > - guix-installed-user-packages (for ~/.guix-profile) > > And to leave "M-x guix-installed-packages" for an arbitrary profile > specified by a user. WDYT? I like it. I tried to summarize what I think I understand in the table below. Could you take a look and fix it up? | Recipe Source | install | Profile | UI access | Scope | Generations | |-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+--------------------------------------+--------+-----------------------------| | guix pull | sudo guix system reconfigure | /run/current-system/profile | * M-x guix-installed-system-packages | global | M-x guix-system-generations | | guix pull | guix -i | ~/.guix-profile | * M-x guix-installed-user-packages | global | M-x guix-generations | | | | | | | | | git pull w/wo user mods | [env]$ sudo ./pre-inst-env guix system reconfigure ../configs/config.k.scm | /run/current-system/profile | * M-x guix-installed-system-packages | user | M-x guix-system-generations | | git pull w/wo user mods | ??? | ~/.guix-profile | * M-x guix-installed-user-packages | user | M-x guix-generations | | | | | | | | | | ??? | | M-x guix-installed-packages | ouser | ??? | | | | | | | | Notes: * - proposed ??? - don't know