From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id cM3fNyZwOWRkJgAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:24:22 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id QCPTNyZwOWQznAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:24:22 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD33014808 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:24:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnLHJ-0000ny-8q; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:23:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnLHI-0000nq-5y for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:23:56 -0400 Received: from mx0.riseup.net ([198.252.153.6]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnLHG-0006kG-8E for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:23:55 -0400 Received: from fews01-sea.riseup.net (unknown [10.0.1.109]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.riseup.net", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx0.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PygFz0Slzz9sPn; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:23:51 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1681485831; bh=ATpcxpjKUwwwR5Nhe1UNixEUKAH0lxbJ9IOHBVwUNLc=; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to:From; b=Txnl10olx2V875QcTUD4lT8cods01TIOjRkRwmSOaPaM+fr1MHMy17OlXtS/MvN6E 06khmTeob44ayvUUSLd6W2tBrhWYVZYk1CPyuPrDhQIHEl5Ae80QTBSl7iGUQu7Orb pUpBkuCP4g9CrykHu8R5ji2Dtr5sLJlvOSF2A+oE= X-Riseup-User-ID: 3962FA1D84D7ED07BF3FC1D6790C8FBF25807E75AFE54E9438A757EDDF7786FE Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews01-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PygFx5SRczJnt1; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:23:49 +0000 (UTC) References: <86cz48ta1g.fsf@gmail.com> From: Csepp To: Andreas Enge Cc: jgart , Simon Tournier , Kaelyn , Ricardo Wurmus , Julien Lepiller , =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_H=C3=B6fling?= , Lars-Dominik Braun , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: i686 core-updates failure. 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But if we start to remove packages such as wget, and > Java, and Haskell, and much of R, and big chunks of Python, for i686, > this amounts to removing the architecture altogether. It is a decision > we may want to take at some point in time, but we should not do so casually. > And definitely not in this core-updates merge. > > One argument for keeping i686 was that problems there were often indicative > of problems in "more exotic" architectures, whereas i686 is relatively easy > to build on x86_64 without specific (often slow) hardware. I am not sure > if this still holds for the 32 bit problems we have seen recently; so there > is a certain argument to make for removing the 32 bit architectures i686 > and armhf (x86_64 will soon celebrate its 25th birthday, aarch64 is half > as old; I do not expect much hardware for the corresponding 32 bit > architectures to be around any more). > > Andreas That is a pretty terrible direction to take. There are still plenty of people who rely on old hardware who can't afford to buy new machines. When discussing these issues, it is important to keep in mind that the people who have enough spare time to contribute to this project and hang out on the mailing lists come from a rather privileged background. What you think is reasonable to categorize as obsolete might be the only machine a poor family could afford on the second hand market. If Linux distros keep dropping support for old hardware, then they are not liberatory, no matter how "free" their licenses are. We are also in the middle of a massive climate crisis, so we should aim to prolong the usefulness of existing hardware and not give in to this planned obsolescence BS.