From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kIKdJzvMxmMfGAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:26:35 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id QDePJjvMxmN5rgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:26:35 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68CD936D5E for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:26:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHomd-00024e-KT; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:25:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHomc-0001xo-14 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:25:58 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHomW-0005qR-WC; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:25:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=K0vrM+TPnN6zOXP1d4vWi0ZzcbUAlpguTnphs0eaVVA=; b=cUxEdZqVW7BGL39m5tWO MKgnjgJRLrYnMQyghp0hsnIhZMiIM9vuH/nr2arT+CV2ujpvJEqcKcIanplzR+xzFHd3HKd0QaclB mls/QfO6ZG6MDUwbSme84AmrRO4vKFv+3y1v523StrYLJk3FYp0W/3Dr7AJFioIb/9ZsbUrK8xKoN RHgPKpCzNvgkstWipd4jU+lKDv//TIv2JyDNOjvE+ZpehtyzkLFANC2Ch++YFcXIB1zHT5Ttrkqqz 5gk8NNOJgGtbPUUrkdQll+/E+R44PQpl1LvCTY+h+0IXu4lkP57d8YgKVubiS4irSOGqOVLMpwKhV k22nNYT3hkTwvA==; Received: from [193.50.110.246] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHomU-0003O6-Ex; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:25:52 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" Cc: Subject: Re: Packages grow, no longer fit on a =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=92=BE?= References: <87tu0s7otg.fsf@inria.fr> <87fscbravp.fsf@pelzflorian.de> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 28 =?utf-8?Q?Niv=C3=B4se?= an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour du Zinc X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:25:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fscbravp.fsf@pelzflorian.de> (pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de's message of "Sun, 15 Jan 2023 18:00:26 +0100") Message-ID: <87a62hdt6c.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=cUxEdZqV; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673972795; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=e4OVwKewQObVUfiU+xsuSdNm27kcuq6sWCm1AZdoO7jFxGXannO7989vifNE4ZaF9vGei1 DKgz9NXf6ron61PU37czZFklqlL2YLBviSM+OG7SwNX9cWYODGxUPoYelJIQ5inGiJHKIE uHpikQxQ6Lmjy2ifmUJNzSEcZbIHBhjcjNm0ErqTFRHyN5/JjnaZNqurCKy/INf1Z4GyiA gQalUYJ/SYkVuq4qpA65s2TTQbsV1fp3DehiLVf6QV0CzecfAp6pru+fOAPJ/AIRvgUOW+ 9Vq7fUyJuVF97YvHswAwyVpU6TGwZaFYV/0FZlc6oh7ax2W0SPN2yt0o4mBU+A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673972795; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=K0vrM+TPnN6zOXP1d4vWi0ZzcbUAlpguTnphs0eaVVA=; b=mP7GXUqkHkTbPsY8jzU5grW3T7YixAYPMyCeMh78AWnPPLwBgfSxYN3G94dc34qRqYr5FV Uwa2lMJ2qG4Led0jSVr4Nc1zRxTehiUtffLlfkmzdM4HQuN1N99v5WbufwoYJ195kMfiJm JEkQ+f7cKcDEsy4dYHcJMGg07zGOHN1vWESxYKcyG+780MF78+35iFZ7u9UOlB0JcbJQSf cPdkTo12FMP6t+d+PjSBnxy5edIFTSHhHgkM121R1MRJBIy2AX4FTmu54Nvf6H1I3++nDX QVZaatpHutiqFdz4pzsBsVA9//mwioAzSXwZe4NYze4zN4+kV7k7s2w7v7XUfA== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=cUxEdZqV; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.59 X-Spam-Score: -7.59 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 68CD936D5E X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: tdWPDVaA6qpf Hi, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> Over the course of a few years, the size of our packages has apparently >> kept growing. > > Disregarding dependencies, most store items got slightly bigger. This > is what I wrote at bug#58760 =E2=80=9CGuix System iso too big for cdrom a= gain=E2=80=9D > : > >> it was possible to burn the Guix System install image to a 700MB CD. >> But it fits no more. I compared using the du tool (comparison between >> good old Guix version e427593 and bad new Guix version 3734857f [=E2=80= =A6]). >> The result is that most packages got slightly bigger and this broke >> the camel=E2=80=99s back. There are slight increases of each and every package, and there are also new big dependencies being pulled in for what, from a distance, doesn=E2=80= =99t really add functionality. Examples include libgccjit in Emacs and mozjs in polkit. In a way, that=E2=80=99s the =E2=80=9Cunavoidable=E2=80=9D (?) evolution of= software, and the problem extends largely beyond Guix. Still, even compared to contemporary distros, we=E2=80=99re doing pretty ba= d. Debian most likely does better, and people often cite Alpine as the distro providing the smallest packages. Do we have figures? What can we learn from them? What tradeoffs to they make? I think package size is something we should work on. I don=E2=80=99t feel = good knowing that =E2=80=98bare-bones.tmpl=E2=80=99 yields an OS that=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to Debian from 20 years ago, yet consumes close to 1=C2=A0GiB. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.