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Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:38:56 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRam4-0000t6-JA; Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:38:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=/PLA1XAsY8HmjzMUvcKz7tTWb48AtfctEC3/G4gFbQo=; b=fLrwvLrMkt2xF6SFRHjQ 5ZVeDBaOkoasNvl6cPkbShIDh52a9LpJW6lV61YbOBVYs1/OEU0hzlvI7Mlyx/uw0Locg4dM4M3RW qV3Z+01t7bJSQUUH/Lo/O/gZFsWer5iz89FEsKT3Ycfx3nh3rXsTIwe3/PzBNoKaaJwCqaCfmes4n M7XeqRjcEWH3/XL+CUtighLeNetFdeVMhPW6sKnwawjaPY/IDyb8pWFIYt4JV/htMEdgacIDcSupm BLbw4QUQ6mjGyWes34ZLpbm0ABFGVrR9pyhlmHwyJXiXfLnC6Yc3h57QYW7voJsoSLa4S/FnK9kfg P6RQL87jNuhqaQ==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: Greg Hogan , Suhail Singh , Ricardo Wurmus , guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-maintainers@gnu.org, Cayetano Santos , Efraim Flashner Subject: Re: On the quest for a new release model In-Reply-To: <87bjx6y2wa.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Fri, 20 Dec 2024 21:06:45 +0900") References: <87a5d0dlm8.fsf@inventati.org> <87ttb7rds6.fsf@elephly.net> <87pllskibl.fsf@elephly.net> <87o71c1yuf.fsf@gmail.com> <87bjxbu55j.fsf@gmail.com> <87h671j5s6.fsf@gnu.org> <87msgssxse.fsf@gmail.com> <87ikrgsxa2.fsf@gmail.com> <87bjx6y2wa.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 8 =?utf-8?Q?Niv=C3=B4se?= an 233 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution=2C?= jour du Fumier X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2024 18:38:47 +0100 Message-ID: <878qrzvhaw.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.36 X-Spam-Score: -6.36 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 83ECF19845 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: EMspH/aQnpRs Hi, Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > Greg Hogan writes: > >> On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 12:43=E2=80=AFPM Suhail Singh wrote: >>> >>> Suhail Singh writes: >>> >>> > The issue, as I see it, is the time commitment required from the >>> > release-team. >>> >>> Correction, the issues (IMO) are (in no particular order): >>> 1. the timespan (several weeks) >>> 2. uncertainty around total effort >>> 3. amount of manual effort involved >>> >>> It's unclear which of the three above is the rate-limiting-step. Of course the goal is to keep total individual effort limited, and having several people involved can make that happen. What this should primarily involve is keeping track of issues we want to be fixed by time of release, and making sure that progress is made. The =E2=80=9Cseveral-week commitment=E2=80=9D phrasing is here because to keep = track of things, one should rather avoid walking away and come back two weeks later; it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be a lot of work though, it=E2=80=99s mos= tly coordination. >> There is also access to hardware. From doc/release.org: >> >> "Steps #2 and #3 require you to have offloading set up so you can >> build for all the supported architectures. For instance, if you=E2=80= =99re >> running this on an x86_64 machine, you should have ~armhf-linux~, >> ~aarch64-linux~ and ~powerpc64le-linux~ machines in your >> =3D/etc/guix/machines.scm=3D. Transparent emulation via QEMU has shown >> limits (such as causing test suite failures); real hardware is a >> must." I agree that=E2=80=99s a problem. > Indeed, at least for the person running 'make release'. Right. We could perhaps avoid that by ensuring ci.guix builds all the relevant artifacts. It=E2=80=99s already set up to do that anyway, but the workflow needs to be reworked so that almost everything happens on ci.guix and =E2=80=98make release=E2=80=99 can simply fetch substitutes for= the artifacts. What makes it more difficult is the two-step process in =E2=80=98make relea= se=E2=80=99 (where it first updates the =E2=80=98guix=E2=80=99 package and then builds = the artifacts and ISOs) and (now that I think about it) the fact that the guix-binary tarballs built on ci.guix have grafts disabled, I think. > I think the Guix binary release can be built from aarch64; we've never > had true armhf offload machines, as far as I know. As far as ci.guix is concerned, we=E2=80=99re too low on Arm build power to build for both aarch64 and armhf, so that too is a problem. In practice, at release time we could tweak scheduling for aarch64-linux builds, but we=E2=80=99d still need to prepare for armhf-linux long before= =E2=80=A6 or just drop it. Ludo=E2=80=99.