From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id SPIXA0iqcWHIFwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 19:58:32 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id ULpbOkeqcWEtRAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 17:58:31 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0AB6D84E for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 19:58:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:54092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcKk-0001gY-Qp for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:58:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38916) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcDn-0002Ev-Dy for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:51:19 -0400 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c]:56728) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcDi-0004cR-JJ; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:51:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:21:21:0:100b]) (Authenticated sender: vagrant@cascadia.debian.net) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31CD01AA2C; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:51:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Vagrant Cascadian To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , zimoun Subject: Re: Incentives for review In-Reply-To: <87mtn56mzg.fsf_-_@inria.fr> References: <874k9if7am.fsf@inria.fr> <86ee8hfm1k.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfwx896z.fsf@inria.fr> <86k0i9drh5.fsf@gmail.com> <87mtn56mzg.fsf_-_@inria.fr> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:51:07 -0700 Message-ID: <875ytqp8qc.fsf@yucca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c; envelope-from=vagrant@debian.org; helo=cascadia.aikidev.net X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1634839111; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=467po5g1Mx9YVWT52tQ3GAnvwKf0ohpLJWmbMKXqQSs=; b=HzDOh/bc87WxYK8mwaJsfudUxVs2nC5PD/0QhRjjNmC7l+IBX64eXPzwREpNbQEbTIVh6b r6+deFv/aDAtJBIwlVIeukh9VFRB5iuXPyjqLosr+THiP4vFHWF0OWMfXctEafmM76PExw A/a1UfDyO25nCVhxsDMzD23t/Gq283rgiWM5QOgUySAuf+pDZU7u7SQ1GZXWNrjbY1ZDu5 h4VFNwUKw4Hd0dwv5t4YcXjfTSIdJpK+ll/oTwmm6a1vJGiVOWxi+YRY7QUv1qzT31qFTn k+k+eaLZXYI6m939Jo1fqd1aTZVS9MUlKMpASYCvIcLJXgHX1WykAlI6OSMjZQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1634839111; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=As3odCr1l2tkE1s8lJ1+wgJbcYZ3/VPzot2+AHagkGaUSbGbSUC15GbcE5XfAE3vgArya5 VWsFftOcHihUSJGyfH0mBftoHp3YNQXZm94zMLcbqUgtBWeubtp49WVlG8U68te0UzVni0 +NgIIr4AycQEQRpIp4eWgwjpY1yNmYyoEMQl0RVMV8Vot1OLa98GyzsH4qhFOvUwDnLKas gukmTMZf9FC0x7+B7pjTY58a4ZiO/FnPyWnmy2H8XMpfNcY4V16nWenbgd+2lWwi9psIQe Ni7QyDhC9I39LGetyafUXRMY02O8NqYUg5t4DnxCdYZedpQFFIi9OTJ58MRPpA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.03 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C0AB6D84E X-Spam-Score: -4.03 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: D9MChiRjyxEa --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2021-10-19, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > zimoun skribis: > >> On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 at 14:56, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> One question is =E2=80=9Cencouragement=E2=80=9D for reviewing, somehow. = Asking for new >> package additions to go via guix-patches is a call making kind of >> equality between contributors. As someone without commit access, I can >> tell you that it is often demotivating to send a trivial addition, wait >> forever, ping people (aside I know who I have to ping :-)). Usually, it >> means people are busy elsewhere, so I try to help to reduce the workload >> by reviewing stuff or by doing bug triage. However, in the same time, I >> see committers push their own trivial additions. It appears to me >> =E2=80=9Cunfair=E2=80=9D. > > I understand and sympathize (I also see us slipping off-topic :-)). > >> Why are committer=E2=80=99s trivial additions more =E2=80=9Curgent=E2=80= =9D than mine? > > Yeah, I see what you mean. > > I would like to see us committers do more review work. But I also view > things from a different angle: everyone contributes in their own way, > and each contribution is a gift. We can insist on community > expectations (reviewing other people=E2=80=99s work), but we should also = welcome > contributions as they come. I must admit, I don't review patches unless they're in an area of expertise (e.g. u-boot, arm-trusted-firmware, reproducible builds tooling, etc.); I just don't have sufficient skill with guile to review arbitrary packages in a meaningful way, other than the most trivial of packages... Before I was granted commit access, I *really* appreciated getting review... but was also frustrated by how long it took to get a contribution in; having limited time available for guix, spending that energy checking if something I'd already "finished" was actually merged was a bit demotivating. I have added a small number of trivial packages without review; maybe I shouldn't have... but it was also a bit of a sigh of relief once I could push directly to no have to get caught up in the waiting game; I had more time to actually contribute other improvements to guix. > There=E2=80=99s a balance to be found between no formal commitment on beh= alf of > committers, and a strict and codified commitment similar to what is > required for participation in the distros list=C2=B9. So yeah, it is a quite balancing act! Would a workflow of pushing to a "wip-pending" branch in guix.git that then gets merged and/or cherry-picked into master/staging/core-updates help at all? A cursory review could commit to "wip-pending", with the plan/hope/expectation that it would get some other review and/or a timeout before it gets merged. I guess it would be hard to avoid having to constantly rebase with the latest updates... "wip-pending" might just add more work to an already needs-more-resources process... live well, vagrant --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCYXGojAAKCRDcUY/If5cW qtv/APwP+WtH23TGcTrfD4+FzMiSmalGLm7m/0U9aJyZUWVmNgEAzUT+ELz4AAal bKdgsq5wcNrTRyDGaYHH3R5c59HAcwA= =D9H1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--