From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4KMFHxpRFmOhHAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:42:18 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id aLPLHRpRFmP7uAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:42:18 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 007A13DA06 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 21:42:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60132 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHz7-00063j-0D for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:42:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33470) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHyw-00063M-3x for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:42:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHyv-00070F-Nh; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:42:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=ZbI36CS7yj/ioZLDgXPTSLIAUxAvJrijFlww1CoRt/Q=; b=AKDlzAJ4vcEeV61R8NBf eLLJsbYW0XO8qunnTz04fd9jI7f99JYr/D3y/9yM87+33oEHWHP1GPEih5JpfsAfHz5HO0BctKmks C1XNtxK7X9WqQCscNM/bY9bc3gLO/DqSr4rMJbB/i76gf++cWbp3altGAU6CHAmqlMPR61lHflrBT mgZVoKUuZhtYnY5vGYt4BhEjJh4NcltO+0IqSBpFMW9WNdjbXnx7YalaGogLN4c2Sf+YPYpEhttYC TpobWX/ygd6/h3cn/QLfMiPYRROl2TpHadB3BdFXV1KpuNjMJj9RgW8z6xoqUwa8cLFXKocqBzR6a E3J8pE0LMkQuSw==; Received: from 91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net ([91.160.117.201]:64475 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHyv-0004d7-54; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:42:05 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Phil Cc: Benjamin Slade , Yasuaki Kudo , Olivier Dion , help-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: Enterprise Guix Hosting? References: <87edy2a7xb.fsf@beadling.co.uk> <961019EF-219A-4DAE-BED3-4DCB7BC386B8@yasuaki.com> <0c1f853a-f613-4ad2-9eda-05940cee5a23@gmail.com> <87bkt5a6mi.fsf@beadling.co.uk> <875yj140i1.fsf@gnu.org> <8735dzqhge.fsf@beadling.co.uk> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Nonidi 19 Fructidor an 230 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9vo?= =?utf-8?Q?lution=2C?= jour du Tagette X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:42:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8735dzqhge.fsf@beadling.co.uk> (phil@beadling.co.uk's message of "Sun, 14 Aug 2022 10:53:37 +0100") Message-ID: <874jxl38xg.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1662406938; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ZbI36CS7yj/ioZLDgXPTSLIAUxAvJrijFlww1CoRt/Q=; b=cYEaHXvnifYPcQMYbEuQ40IWZGNTHhhE00KcdqF0Aw/SzCflgwHiWbyTnWqUKYcup+2CBy j6fG/RCAg1QELP3SR2UE+lozFFtQCgZOwiPpycl3UbOXc8vf2hvhcLrLNTXo3LNKM8DL7p iUXpUcbhC64yJCnIugvdxeXS4CuCLeOmqHCLBNX0rPWmpKDwv9Q21ecpCRtpmq3yoqYv/n +qxSWgi1malzBRza/TvsD7Jj3nrh/wH+MZFwHUSpzUGv9F+b1pY3G3dwbfBqNxm20NdoS0 NnuWRzlLvr6pMeSMHO3ZAA6Nvhv4L6lcXVHbi/quMsamuYvZrbNsLURTOMvTEA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1662406938; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lb2FRnJ4ceITQBkOTIx3fgSRhVT3a/AhXDD7/aKvO8wbN5tURf9+34BkcaoqRbTKF+dlNr x3dDHH1LJ1DRBpEbcnMV3++Uc0rvF7fBCdd7HVw7wExOe831LtqE/EV9r1ESMCCR8CiUgr +r5vFYlqHaElQmV1j3rlq7jaRkHBEhl9H9PatPy/9k0CJYQYvZ9pc653ItYWzcB1kH/6Mp 5lwHNvt55Bko4SovDNDf9bg1daWp3O7v71FLgJfMS7/4QIfGTu3T+gH6OIXtvzw8dfi931 ABhzkSsKZqyVWWH9RIjDFauWk/kiHOFk+T8HnXZW91307NzbAJa5x5xJ00wPLQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=AKDlzAJ4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.47 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=AKDlzAJ4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 007A13DA06 X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: QcMhgNKtSxli Hi Phil, Phil skribis: > Comments inline. I'm also aiming to be at the Guix 10 Year thing in > Paris - sadly only for the Friday, so happy to discuss this informally > there too! Looking forward to chatting there! [...] > Whilst I like Guix's own documentation, some developers did feedback to > me that it was to complex for people who just wanted to get-on and use > Guix, rather than setup, understand and maintain Guix. So this is the > area I ended-up documenting - "Guix Up-and-running for Python > Developers". One day I'd like to publish it properly, but it's very much > a WIP at the moment! Publishing such a document (either standalone or as part of the cookbook) would be great; it=E2=80=99d certainly be a gentle way to get sta= rted for many developers out there. > One advantage I did have is that I rewrote the CI/CD system > to work around Guix, and the old system was showing it's age, so people > were happy to trade Python venvs, for a better build and deployment exper= ience. Yes, that too is a use case that we should document better (some years ago I used Guix at work for CI, testing a piece of C++ code under a variety of configurations=E2=80=94tedious to do without Guix.) > We now have 5 developers working at least part of the time writing > Guix packages, or tweaking small bits of the Guix core code (I keep > meaning to make more of an effort to get our efforts back into Guix > proper!). As more developers slowly try-out more advanced stuff in Guix > this number is growing, and most developers that invest the time end up > liking Guix - so I think there's plenty of hope to grow it further! Neat! [...] > 3 things which lowers the barrier to entry in my experience commercially > would be: > > - Push button WSL support (I know this has some momentum eg > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-patches/2022-08/msg00945.html). > At the moment I tend to use a custom image I made which is just WSL on > top of Ubuntu. I have made it work with busybox, but it's not yet > robust enough to wheel out over the enterprise like this. > - Perhaps a set of videos aimed directly at converting a vanilla Python > environment into one running in Guix. Try to entice the communities > off their current tooling by making it as easy as possible to switch. > I even went as far as writing a requirements file to guix package > converter at work to help with this. > - Excellent Javascript support would help. I'm aware of some of the > difficulties this presents Guix, and am not a fan of npm, etc - but > it's so often used by developers I think not having support for it is > always going to be tricky to sell to a wider audience. This is sorted in order of increasing difficulty (maybe exponentially increasing, even :-)) but yes, these sound like good action items. Thanks for your feedback! Ludo=E2=80=99.