From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_Sch=c3=a4fer?= Subject: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 04:13:05 +0200 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------ADA6A4B43206E39F860E8236" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50834) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDJHU-0003Ap-4K for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:13:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDJHR-0001kt-Dk for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:13:19 -0400 Received: from ciffreo.uberspace.de ([185.26.156.173]:39140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDJHR-0001bp-4r for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:13:17 -0400 Content-Language: en-US List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ADA6A4B43206E39F860E8236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I've been using NixOS for a few years and now I want to try out Guix. The goal is to see whether there is a benefit to using both and what we can learn from each other. Last year Ludo wrote: > > Is compatibility with the nix-daemon a goal of the Guix project? > > I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not a worthy goal, as in, it would > cost more than it’s worth. guix-daemon is already incompatible with > nix-daemon on a few things, such as the “builtin:download” derivation > builder. But the Guix manual at 2.2 [1] says: > When a working installation of the Nix package manager is available, you can > instead configure Guix with --disable-daemon. In that case, Nix replaces the > three dependencies above. > > Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share the same store between > both. To do so, you must pass configure not only the same --with-store-dir > value, but also the same --localstatedir value. The latter is essential because > it specifies where the database that stores metadata about the store is > located, among other things. The default values for Nix are > --with-store-dir=/nix/store and --localstatedir=/nix/var. Note that > --disable-daemon is not required if your goal is to share the store with Nix. How much of that is still true? The daemon is not compatible anymore and I don't think it is a good idea to have two different daemons share the same store. Is there still the a possibility to use either Nix on GuixSD or Guix on NixOS without duplicating the store or running two daemons? Or e.g. use Nix with Guile? Cheers, Daniel [1] https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/guix.html#Requirements --------------ADA6A4B43206E39F860E8236 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 
Hi all,

I've been using NixOS for a few years and now I want to try out Guix.
The goal is to see whether there is a benefit to using both and what we can learn from each other.

Last year Ludo wrote:
> > Is compatibility with the nix-daemon a goal of the Guix project?
> 
> I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not a worthy goal, as in, it would
> cost more than it’s worth.  guix-daemon is already incompatible with
> nix-daemon on a few things, such as the “builtin:download” derivation
> builder.

But the Guix manual at 2.2 [1] says:
> When a working installation of the Nix package manager is available, you can
> instead configure Guix with --disable-daemon. In that case, Nix replaces the
> three dependencies above.
> 
> Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share the same store between
> both. To do so, you must pass configure not only the same --with-store-dir
> value, but also the same --localstatedir value. The latter is essential because
> it specifies where the database that stores metadata about the store is
> located, among other things. The default values for Nix are
> --with-store-dir=/nix/store and --localstatedir=/nix/var. Note that
> --disable-daemon is not required if your goal is to share the store with Nix. 

How much of that is still true? The daemon is not compatible anymore and
I don't think it is a good idea to have two different daemons share the same store.

Is there still the a possibility to use either Nix on GuixSD or Guix on NixOS
without duplicating the store or running two daemons?
Or e.g. use Nix with Guile?

Cheers,
Daniel

[1] https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/guix.html#Requirements
--------------ADA6A4B43206E39F860E8236-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Pjotr Prins Subject: Re: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:19:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDSrW-00068Q-Ry for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:27:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDSrV-0001BJ-OX for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:27:10 -0400 Received: from mail.thebird.nl ([94.142.245.5]:46274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDSrV-0001Ai-Im for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:27:09 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=E4fer?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hi Daniel, Nix and Guix are quite different even though they share the same root. I used Nix for 10-odd years until I discovered GNU Guix. On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 04:13:05AM +0200, Daniel Sch=E4fer wrote: > How much of that is still true? The daemon is not compatible anymore an= d > I don't think it is a good idea to have two different daemons share the= same sto > re. Correct. There are two databases and the hashes are different anyway. No gain and plenty of potential pain. > Is there still the a possibility to use either Nix on GuixSD or Guix on= NixOS > without duplicating the store or running two daemons? > Or e.g. use Nix with Guile? It is safe to use two stores and two daemons. Virtue of isolation :) Pj. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice via "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." Subject: Re: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:25:51 +0200 Message-ID: <87r241yiow.fsf@nckx> References: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> Reply-To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35388) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDqG1-0007QM-6o for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:26:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDqFy-00011s-Mg for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:25:59 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:7405::1]:34362) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDqFy-00011T-03 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:25:58 -0400 In-reply-to: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org Cc: Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Sch=C3=A4fer?= --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pjotr Prins =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > It is safe[r?] to use two stores and two daemons. Virtue of=20 > isolation :) I agree. There is no advantage to sharing the store that I can=20 imagine is worth the risk and burden of compiling your entire Guix=20 or Nix world from scratch because you can't use substitutes. The Guix manual says: > Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share the same=20 > store between > both. To do so, you must pass configure not only the same=20 > --with-store-dir > value, but also the same --localstatedir value. The latter is=20 > essential because > it specifies where the database that stores metadata about the=20 > store is > located, among other things. The default values for Nix are > --with-store-dir=3D/nix/store and --localstatedir=3D/nix/var. Note=20 > that > --disable-daemon is not required if your goal is to share the=20 > store with Nix. Unless somebody objects, I'd like to (wait for it) nix this from=20 the manual entirely. It may or may not be true still, and even if it is, it's nothing=20 more than a random Fun Fact that doesn't warrant encouragement in=20 official documentation. Going once, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEfo+u0AlEeO9y5k0W2Imw8BjFSTwFAl2ODd8ACgkQ2Imw8BjF STwhcBAArbRvXruMXnp4fGKYnprnPf1vn9wGGcAgNfGaV3mKW0pY1Yxf6PocjttJ alFQ9V7l7LvwjPgvrxS5KbxM44eGEXWvkBpc446K2rtXA3dY619EjbLfSLF9VfZb 8OuPKKGsKIZhksdYLd4dXwXjV3w82q2sm4WEUFrtHyRMAFUunOjuElvPc6laohqI R5GmC82iNWdy1TgLkYyhHy8gdIN+MPoJAJVvZb2ePJuz5hfXqHbbeR8N+fLOTvDJ gdPwD2dY93HYf3kUil2CdH6gPok8eIegvaeMIet8tmOZYALLgMqRwxXebqm1GHAP Lgf/6bn3XEel2LdQ3vSmrQ9aXCk135w4R0m+zvv12tuM2WFRPwXRHf5aRFG5lsoa KYk5qu2jDzJhSSCNmZmZfdteZmvlHUHUQIbu1pT7iPJMvNXCCrc7wmAkUJfuEH4F apRnp426quBqKXsrbQi8KyFiYC9dhCUbHPkra+XI0DDP3CYiAEkc4CU1mjUmWD8j A+112Q1NNHIP4C2elWoTuLhzK7if8zuCzkcvkdYd8YZVBCI9Xli4LpvkSaGLgYMD 2Gf101Qa5wPc08BPXV1Ml9k1A0vinLC1G/7RN2YAp20eZhIqyq9uZEbYykxt9yqm wV3iRADvoR7QKqWKNLDS7Bikp2gOjiJOgP3kyoCTFJXZ9yk3jR8= =Bexm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:00:26 +0200 Message-ID: <8736ghh5lz.fsf@elephly.net> References: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> <87r241yiow.fsf@nckx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49243) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDwPt-0000Ia-3v for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 16:00:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDwPr-0007wf-Fo for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 16:00:36 -0400 Received: from sender4-of-o52.zoho.com ([136.143.188.52]:21261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDwPr-0007up-0o for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 16:00:35 -0400 In-reply-to: <87r241yiow.fsf@nckx> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Sch=C3=A4fer?= Tobias Geerinckx-Rice via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distri= bution. writes: > The Guix manual says: >> Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share the same >> store between >> both. To do so, you must pass configure not only the same >> --with-store-dir >> value, but also the same --localstatedir value. The latter is >> essential because >> it specifies where the database that stores metadata about the store >> is >> located, among other things. The default values for Nix are >> --with-store-dir=3D/nix/store and --localstatedir=3D/nix/var. Note that >> --disable-daemon is not required if your goal is to share the store >> with Nix. > > Unless somebody objects, I'd like to (wait for it) nix this from the > manual entirely. I don=E2=80=99t object to removing it. In fact, I=E2=80=99d be happy to se= e it vanish. -- Ricardo From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:38:19 +0200 Message-ID: <871rw0e8ic.fsf@nckx> References: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> <87r241yiow.fsf@nckx> <8736ghh5lz.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53647) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iEEng-0005tW-Sg for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:38:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEEng-0005Pf-2A for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:38:24 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:7405::1]:32798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEEnf-0005Or-DZ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:38:24 -0400 In-reply-to: <8736ghh5lz.fsf@elephly.net> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Ricardo Wurmus Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Sch=C3=A4fer?= --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ricardo Wurmus =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice writes: >> The Guix manual says: >>> Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share [=E2=80=A6] >> >> Unless somebody objects, I'd like to (wait for it) nix this=20 >> from the >> manual entirely. > > I don=E2=80=99t object to removing it. In fact, I=E2=80=99d be happy to = see it=20 > vanish. Gone in 348d8e446fbc8f5c9a51a081047de72d735a2a8a. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEfo+u0AlEeO9y5k0W2Imw8BjFSTwFAl2PfmsACgkQ2Imw8BjF STyUhQ//evqoLbd5h6FwkuKNbbJhcBStcOqdx96K/2Nu6ofN+WTc+n2mDhAd4Qtc Pu9/VWYeG8xUXxq0SQC2XfLTLAAx9OE4mG/38UmXGRFVSwm63gw6UO4jDurovDLy 5Mdmnw0cyMX9GiUYDGWmC4mRg3a1Yq+S0BRbg2ykLzzOWIoxb05qOnJhzFgM62H7 2/B5hmbjl1F0q6ChjLiT/iS3tR2Zy7ss4Q0iL2qm+JabOFs9KMF/DrFDEwYPkfwR K/QldF1SbpCj5SLJtQUOYP/d3x+AKxr+cvGwx/fBQ5n65r+kkLKrnWeTnEKZDhmT UJPh/+3Zog7uPbKwiibA7BEkmFShA2Jo9kCKuVG+lTXThz3/1+Xl0SUjILNaQJbB zXR6SCGuSyw8/6PuvEJSXudfuOk9zMR028/sef7fRIwkfzrqq1NPE69SfAV3QBHn AZvMeFP0JinzPAxeN5A7dET7+XsPpKQNwBQjldph8t9Zp6rIEPdUFuqN33nBDR9c Ib56vBOkRAACAAphaHnuh1vDqqtHfttIToL7AqoBojRI+aQKQJ4PPfp+yZO7b4ny GYoRIE0S4L6yog86DFModD8MjjiLlrnp0x/H6rIRL1yYySLm2PBxaxqIk9fAN3tN kHorBNQIVqc5I+pyGpFdMyCOi+d1qvitp0yHj0o0E7nYrASu7Vw= =Zpqc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Compatibility between Nix and Guix Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 23:15:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87ftkgm8ai.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20190926121942.e67w6cx53u6yy2qx@thebird.nl> <87r241yiow.fsf@nckx> <8736ghh5lz.fsf@elephly.net> <871rw0e8ic.fsf@nckx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iEK4L-0001Xx-EB for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:15:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEK4I-0003Bf-Ki for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:15:57 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:38494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iEK4I-0003AB-EQ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:15:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <871rw0e8ic.fsf@nckx> (Tobias Geerinckx-Rice's message of "Sat, 28 Sep 2019 17:38:19 +0200") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Sch=C3=A4fer?= Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis: > Ricardo Wurmus =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A >> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice writes: >>> The Guix manual says: >>>> Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share [=E2=80=A6] >>> >>> Unless somebody objects, I'd like to (wait for it) nix this from >>> the >>> manual entirely. >> >> I don=E2=80=99t object to removing it. In fact, I=E2=80=99d be happy to= see it >> vanish. > > Gone in 348d8e446fbc8f5c9a51a081047de72d735a2a8a. Thanks! I think that paragraph had been incorrect for some time indeed. Ludo=E2=80=99.