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bh=LhjussGQvknO1fENpK4tVWKW702euqzix0DfBl3Dfjk=; b=Sd1rmuFETtflgZP/QnUzlj3VPP1uaUlR8euxrVVoaD2w9YRswb3MFTokbwKkT8FW Ma+BcpatsEbLXpRJlJpqJmuwsN+x4RjUbIwSoQwBH0JRO/VVIfCepVjb3Uog/SHqOFq 4YAOznuZC/lzs4FfCALEKPtJdDifdi2ubS8ZNolk= Received: from localhost (133-122-142-46.pool.kielnet.net [46.142.122.133]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1694173291100200.1954656956874; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:41:31 -0700 (PDT) References: <20230827135726.y33t55w4cvq6zsvb@X-kone> <874jkift8v.fsf@gmail.com> <867cp4sj7k.fsf@gmail.com> <38242808-2f06-4674-3842-aea1a5378d05@gmail.com> <86v8cop6sy.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cldm8o.fsf@xelera.eu> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.5; emacs 28.2 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Giovanni Biscuolo Cc: Katherine Cox-Buday , Simon Tournier , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 13:28:31 +0200 In-reply-to: <87v8cldm8o.fsf@xelera.eu> Message-ID: <871qf87uzc.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.184.59; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender3-of-o59.zoho.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CF8B4644E9 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.41 X-Spam-Score: -4.41 X-TUID: 8BFT6WbF2GhT Giovanni, > You are obviously free not to contribute your patches upstream but the > fact that you decided not to because it's "too hard" (my executive > summary about your complaints about Change Log content rules) to write > commit messages suitable for contribution it _not_ a Guix maintainers > fault, not at all. As a former Guix co-maintainer I disagree with this take. (Nobody even brought up the word =E2=80=9Cfault=E2=80=9D, which is a particularly unhelp= ful lens for understanding social issues, in my opinion.) =E2=80=9Ctoo hard=E2=80=9D sounds (perhaps unintentionally) derisive. It= =E2=80=99s a real issue for the projects when very capable contributors like Katherine encounter numerous little obstacles that in aggregate lead to a very rational decision to be selective about what contribution to send off on this unnecessarily long journey. It=E2=80=99s not that writing commit messages is hard. It=E2=80=99s one of= many obstacles, and the lack of clear objective guidelines (fun fact: we aren=E2=80=99t actually following the Changelog rules) that means that even something as trivial (compared to the rest of the work) as the commit message must be placed on the pile of chores. Add on top of that that there=E2=80=99s a low probability of gratification, because committers like myself are getting burned out and so patches simply go unacknowledged or only ever see a first cursory review. We can=E2=80=99t blame anyone for seeing these two piles and come to the conclusion that it=E2=80=99s not worth the hassle =E2=80=94 especially when= operating your own channel is so easy in comparison. Katherine, I=E2=80=99m very happy you brought this up and continue to respo= nd in this thread to clarify and steer the discussion into a fruitful direction. I know I couldn=E2=80=99t do it. I thank you for this work, an= d I hope that the project can come up with ways to lower the barriers to entry. --=20 Ricardo PS: It=E2=80=99s probably no exaggeration to say that I=E2=80=99m only still contributing to Guix because I already *have* commit access and I=E2=80=99m committed to ensuring that support for R and science packages doesn=E2=80= =99t degrade. That alone keeps me busy. While commit messages aren=E2=80=99t r= eally an obstacle for me personally (probably because nobody judges my messages), I probably wouldn=E2=80=99t be able to justify spending my now v= ery limited free time to contributing to Guix now that the reward/effort scale is so unbalanced.