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Mon, 16 Oct 2023 04:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pfiuh07 ([193.48.40.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n35-20020a05600c3ba300b003fc16ee2864sm6844647wms.48.2023.10.16.04.05.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 16 Oct 2023 04:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier In-Reply-To: <87y1g8m7pd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o7hwas61.fsf@gnu.org> <8ec588483525275aac1eb057543a903bea707ead.1695421391.git.ludo@gnu.org> <87sf724ami.fsf@gmail.com> <87jzsd2fo5.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y1g8m7pd.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 10:46:06 +0200 Message-ID: <871qdvrm41.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.82 X-Spam-Score: 2.82 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5158B61F93 X-TUID: mimWcSNZ7nsU Hi Ludo, On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 12:54, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> To make it explicit: is this series worth the Guile-GnuTLS/Git >> circular dependency corner case? Maybe it is already all clear for >> you, and your answer is a big YES. :-) And perhaps it is the only >> answer. :-) But it does not mean the answer is fully clear for >> everybody, at least it is not necessary straightforward for me. >> Somehow, do we have a consensus about the way that this series is >> worth the Guile-GnuTLS/Git circular dependency corner case? And a >> consensus about the way that this series is The Right Thing for that >> circular dependency? > > One thing I probably didn=E2=80=99t explain clearly is that yes, the circ= ular > dependency issue is one we have to solve. For years, I hope we could > avoid it but experience has shown that no, it=E2=80=99s a problem we did = have to > address. There is different ways to solve this circular dependency. > One example is Guile-GnuTLS being built from a Git checkout. Another > one is Hurd packages in commencement.scm built from a Git checkout. We > had to go to great lengths to avoid =E2=80=98git-fetch=E2=80=99: > > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/64708#6 Somehow, I think it is the direction to explore: have some =E2=80=99git-fetch-bootstrap=E2=80=99 which relies on some =E2=80=99builtin= :git-download=E2=80=99 and guix-daemon side code, and then that being used to have the packages required by some =E2=80=99git-fetch=E2=80=99 without guix-daemon side code. Doing so, we would minimize the opaque =E2=80=93 hard to audit =E2=80=93 co= de, which means less power to guix-daemon, we keep the control, etc. It appears to me more consistent with the general approach elsewhere. Anyway. Rehashing all, your opinion was already made when you sent this patch. You wrote since the very beginning on 6 May 2023 for Guile-GnuTLS [1]: The longer-term solution is to add a =E2=80=9Cbuiltin:git-download= =E2=80=9D derivation builder, just like we have =E2=80=9Cbuiltin:download=E2= =80=9D. The implementation should be relatively easy, but we=E2=80=99ll have to= be able to deal with daemons that lack this builtin possibly for several years. https://issues.guix.gnu.org/63331#0 Therefore, this patch was not an open discussion for some design but the review of some code for fixing concrete issues. No hard feeling, we need to make progress after all; the issue is pending since months. However, when giving a look at this patch, it was not my expectations. It is my own mistake to have not been enough active before with the issue. I had months to discuss some design for the circular dependencies of the fetching methods. Since I am spending some time reading about what is going on with Guix, I think we have a failure in some process. IMHO, we are missing a Request For Comments and I will send a proposal for some implementation details this week. Cheers, simon