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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.57 X-Spam-Score: -9.57 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2211BAA2A X-TUID: zH/LCvbRDdR3 Hi, On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 at 14:09, MSavoritias wrote: > when its the same people that push Emacs as the "blessed" way to=20 > contribute (as in the guix manual) Just to point 1. Guix is part of GNU =E2=80=93 for the good, the bad and the ugly =E2=80=93 so 2. editors developed under the GNU umbrella are autopromo= ted =E2=80=93 GNU Emacs is one, GNU nano would be another one. Well, for what it is worth, I feel such autopromotion as some consistency. BTW, Efraim is GNU Guix co-maintainer and demoed the use of Vim for Guix development: https://10years.guix.gnu.org/video/using-vim-for-guix-development/ Somehow, when one co-maintainer publicly demoed using not-Emacs makes a point that there is no =E2=80=9Cblessed=E2=80=9C editors =E2=80=93 and the = part dedicated for Emacs in the manual seems just an autopromotion of GNU products that contributors enjoy for cooking =E2=80=93 dogfooding. ;-). Contributions in the Guix manual or in the cookbook about how to setup other editors than Emacs are very welcome. > The problem part is the way you dismissed the persons experience as=20 > "bollocks". >From where I stand, I feel a lot of negative rants, coming from frustration or generating frustration. The best against frustration, from all sides, is to send positive feedback for being engaging and thus unlock or tackle concrete issues. Well, my 2 cents. :-) Last, in all what I am reading in this thread or elsewhere about the relationship between Emacs and Guix or between Guix and Emacs, I have the bad taste that a part of the Guile manual had been lost in translation: The Emacs Thesis The story of Guile is the story of bringing the development experience of Emacs to the mass of programs on a GNU system. [...] After the Emacs experience was appreciated more widely, a number of hackers started to consider how to spread this experience to the rest of the GNU system. It was clear that the easiest way to Emacsify a program would be to embed a shared language implementation into it. https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/The-Emacs-Thesis.ht= ml Guix is this GNU System, isn=E2=80=99t it? And then Ludo explicitly expressed such goal for Guix [1]: =C2=AB What about following that Emacs meme for a complete distro? That's what the GNU Guix project has been trying to answer. =C2=BB Emacs principles and design are part of the Guix DNA. Part of the DNA does not mean twin, it means share some relative. Emacs is not a mandatory tool for contributing, obviously not! The point is that many of us are seeing a continuum between Emacs and Guix for doing their computations and similarly as I am promoting Guix because it has radically changed my view of package and system management, I am also promoting Emacs because it has radically changed my view of interacting with computers. Because both are rooted in the same principles. IMHO, this explains the place of Emacs in the Guix ecosystem. Many contributors had or still share this point of view between Emacs and Guix. And it is up to people that are not sharing =C2=AB The Emacs Thesis = =C2=BB to promote their tools; free software is not about consuming a product but about sharing what you have. 1: https://archive.fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/the_emacs_of_distros/ Cheers, simon