From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: myglc2 Subject: Re: [GSoC] Draft proposal for an Install Wizard for Guix Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:49:36 -0400 Message-ID: <8637qhqyj3.fsf@gmail.com> References: <56F1AEF0.60304@mtu.edu> <871t6ypuuk.fsf@gnu.org> <56F55DE4.4000505@mtu.edu> <87mvpl31uk.fsf@gnu.org> <56F78298.7060806@mtu.edu> <86zitjg4e9.fsf@gmail.com> <87mvpdecoo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57029) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1asZn5-0003He-KJ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:50:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1asZn1-0002Wx-JW for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:50:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87mvpdecoo.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Fri, 01 Apr 2016 14:27:51 +0200") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) writes: > myglc2 skribis: > >> Thomas Ingram writes: >> >>> On 03/26/2016 07:39 AM, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >>>> Personally, I would like to view the =E2=80=9Cwizard=E2=80=9D as a hel= per, and not as >>>> something that hides everything and turns people into =E2=80=9Cend use= rs.=E2=80=9D >> >> Wow, Ludo, what do you have against "end users"? > > I think that for people to enjoy their computing freedom, they must be > empowered rather than treated as =E2=80=9Cend users.=E2=80=9D OK, how about this thought experiment: Let's say you are making software that empowers users to do anything they like. You also have the choice between a "user friendly" interface design and a "hacker friendly" design. The overall functionally is the same in both versions. Lets say the "user friendly" version structures the interface to provide bite-sized entry points so that novices can easily start using it. The "hacker friendly" version has a more complex user interface that hackers like better. Now, if 100,000 people will adopt the "user friendly" version, and 10,0000 users will adopt the "hacker friendly" version, which will empower more people? Which version would you want to build? This is why user interface decisions are so important. It is why, in a traditional software company, such big battles are fought between the marketing and engineering departments over usability. [...] > Now, I=E2=80=99m not saying that Guix{,SD} or Emacs are trivial for anyon= e to > hack on either, but I think their design where everything is exposed in > a unified way lowers the barrier to hacking. Yes Guix is brilliant for hacking. That's why I have blown the last three months playing with it ;-) But I assure you, Guix complexity will be off-putting to non-hackers, just as emacs is. Guix was off-putting to me, and I use emacs 24x7. So, IMO, if you do nothing, your user base will be largely limited to Guix hackers. Is this what you want? [...] > > There was a talk last year by Mako on this topic: > > https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/access-without-empowerment-libreplanet-20= 15-keynote Watched this talk. The primary measure of success Mako cites is the number of users. Whether we like it or not, at the end of the day, this is the most important metric to most people. It drives credibility, resources, and acceptance. There is no doubt in my mind that the number of Guix users will be dramatically enhanced by making Guix easier for a novice to understand and use. You are entering the stage of the process where interface and documentation decisions will be set in stone and these will have a strong effect on downstream Guix adoption. IMO, if you do nothing you will emerge with a hacker-friendly solution with self limiting adoption. That is why I think you should turn your focus toward usability and actively make compromises toward novice users. - George