From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id KBXuM/AcNWIGRAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 00:59:44 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id KBOtMPAcNWJzJAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 00:59:44 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 675763C81A for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 00:59:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:53850 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVMVT-0000kn-IK for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 19:59:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58000) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVMVI-0000kL-KE; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 19:59:32 -0400 Received: from mail1.g12.pair.com ([66.39.4.99]:35424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVMVH-0002L6-0s; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 19:59:32 -0400 Received: from mail1.g12.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.g12.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB8871E5AA; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 19:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (w135107.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [121.1.135.107]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.g12.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 57DE37456BC; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 19:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Yasuaki Kudo Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 08:59:26 +0900 Message-Id: <84055911-A849-4B0B-AA90-D1B9F4E94E4C@yasuaki.com> References: <699ed5cd32d656ae03e05994026784e5@selfhosted.xyz> In-Reply-To: <699ed5cd32d656ae03e05994026784e5@selfhosted.xyz> To: david larsson X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19D52) Received-SPF: none client-ip=66.39.4.99; envelope-from=yasu@yasuaki.com; helo=mail1.g12.pair.com X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Guix-devel , zimoun Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647647984; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=7hj69P90IZfi4Wr2JIS44TKNZM2b0rdXy3/5jT5/Gyo=; b=ILz7FIMqr7rIrqRLY0p2mnIpOf5I1G+e39QBDUicEs611a59DpIb9CWaOznQ1dpY56zYM/ EKwPKon+L1lvuLsG+D7qt8Um32j6gcpVwiurshidJqHSfZfytugDWbjGCA14TWHpk1uo7M nGzzqZTRvAhvClN+7mD3h8cwKSNF4Rh+ftPy4ivgcNb4wUUKtZm/e0dWcRNCpKxy41fCVH 5gTKNhS2db668dJzRSoq7Fj6SKy8Pi1euyUKvOQgvdQPXGa7s8crGMbMQIrAtOcaJ7YkBj +A6tks8G/adQQH2CGvbLIsr6uSCJQAOJ/ar7kwCokXqN+YRWTqwb47BVeFCtHg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647647984; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NfSLQ4mzT9jyM7H87z4O2+LRQucly+QoLoOnyLIVON4dTcF6P0YSrapf50kSJ5w5ZhDWXU xMEhwE4vgk8t3cF0IOrxL/jddNNCUDhoN5hgKroWhugnrha493D1N710N+nWFUv1UQB8s5 fqapIta0aOKxJc2pzFv9lTxuS4CmC1btk9CjK/Ycg9MWJrcZewiQL0AdX/xWHrxl+5yweL 2iUA7MMYH92K/P92jJanWlPwyX6af19ECJILi9zpHmLBTqFnsMaMejS2aMOWThYi6poPw5 yXSqypGC4HZQtVAUai3diE5yy0vXzMRP6pNjYPSp973wvqF20vZ4LFRAL5sdkQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.54 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 675763C81A X-Spam-Score: -1.54 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: LdIye6IqPw9j Hello David, I am huge fan of Guix on WSL2 and I used to use it a lot =F0=9F=98=84. And y= es, it should be documented well (or even better, the installation should be= made super simple) while as you mentioned, it might be easier to do this in= another community. I don't share the ideology of hardline rejection of the use of proprietary s= oftware - I just need everything to be accountable, such as knowing which pa= rt of the system is Free and which isn't. (and of course more Free the merri= er) Guix, the software, (IMHO, not necessarily the community unless a separate o= ne is created) does the most perfect job for this =F0=9F=98=84 -Yasu > On Mar 19, 2022, at 06:14, david larsson wr= ote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2022-03-17 13:56, zimoun wrote: >> Hi Olivier, >>> On another note, what I find fascinating is why Guix and Nix are not >>> more used in academic papers. >> Indeed. >> One part of the answer is, IMHO: it is difficult to spread the word. >> For instance, with co-authors, we have tried to write a short paper >> detailing what Guix solves, i.e., the computational environment part of >> the =E2=80=9Cscience crisis=E2=80=9C, and targeting especially bioinfo fo= lks. We got >> many refusals by the journals that bioinfo folks indeed read and we end >> in a =E2=80=9Cspecialized=E2=80=9D journal. >> On the top of that, add the fact that most of the time, people use what >> other people in their lab or collaborators already use. >> On the top of that, add the fact that the story of Guix on Windows or >> Mac is not really good. I am not arguing here, just to mention that >> many people are still using Windows or Mac and few one Linux variant. >> Therefore, all in all, the bootstrap of Guix is hard; as always. :-) >> The initiative Guix-HPC is an attempt to address that. The name is >> probably not fully representative since now it looks like Guix in >> scientific context; HPC being only one component. >> =46rom my point of view, the bootstrap of Guix in scientific world >> requires more documentation materials for many common use cases and more >> popular applications or usual scientific stack. For instance PyTorch in >> Guix is one step but many things are still really hard to do with Guix >> when it is not elsewhere. Another instance is RStudio for bioinfo folks >> =E2=80=93 it does not work out of the box with Guix when it does elsewher= e. >> Help in these both areas =E2=80=93 howto materials and popular applicatio= ns =E2=80=93 is >> very welcome. :-) >> Join the fun, join guix-science@gnu.org :-) >> Cheers, >> simon >=20 > I run Guix including GUI applications from Windows via WSL2 (Windows Subsy= stem for Linux). It may help some to try it out if this setup was easier and= more documented, though I suppose that is somewhat prevented to go via offi= cial channels by the FSDG guidelines. >=20 > Best regards, > David >=20