From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Meltdown / Spectre Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 22:51:00 +0100 Message-ID: <807794bd-5262-8b36-1f9f-dd3a316928ff@tobias.gr> References: <874lnzcedp.fsf@gmail.com> <20180106174358.GA28436@jasmine.lan> <87lghapeu5.fsf@gmail.com> <87incc6z9o.fsf@gmail.com> <87fu7g436e.fsf@fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9cEhbiu1WAqi74iMjVsncjEYrKUFYmTJl" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49758) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYfHJ-0000IB-UI for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 16:48:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYfHI-00021I-TW for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 16:48:21 -0500 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:cc92::1]:60148) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYfHI-0001zy-Fv for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 16:48:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87fu7g436e.fsf@fastmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: mbakke@fastmail.com, cox.katherine.e@gmail.com, cmmarusich@gmail.com Cc: development@libreboot.org, guix-devel@gnu.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --9cEhbiu1WAqi74iMjVsncjEYrKUFYmTJl Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fCfCDasBsms9Cr5T3HbmBjQYOpUvIu3sj"; protected-headers="v1" From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice To: mbakke@fastmail.com, cox.katherine.e@gmail.com, cmmarusich@gmail.com Cc: development@libreboot.org, guix-devel@gnu.org Message-ID: <807794bd-5262-8b36-1f9f-dd3a316928ff@tobias.gr> Subject: Re: Meltdown / Spectre References: <874lnzcedp.fsf@gmail.com> <20180106174358.GA28436@jasmine.lan> <87lghapeu5.fsf@gmail.com> <87incc6z9o.fsf@gmail.com> <87fu7g436e.fsf@fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87fu7g436e.fsf@fastmail.com> --fCfCDasBsms9Cr5T3HbmBjQYOpUvIu3sj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hej Marius, [I see this is being CC'd to @libreboot.org. I'm answering only as a GNU Guix user and contributor, and assume people who live and breathe this stuff will find plenty of holes in my opinion. Which this is.] Marius Bakke wrote on 08/01/18 at 19:26: > In my opinion, CPU microcode falls under "non-functional data", as > expressly permitted by the GNU FSDG. I'm not sure how tongue-in-cheek this is, so I'm not sure how to respond. I hope nobody on the Internet is wrong^Wseriously suggesting that microcode or any other firmware isn't machine code and =E2=80=94 unfortunately for everyone everywhere =E2=80=94 very (dis)functional inde= ed. (Don't get me wrong: I wish it weren't so, or that there were some sort of commonly-agreed-upon wink-nudge fiction that it wasn't. If there is, then Debian isn't playing along: microcode blobs are =E2=80=98non-free=E2= =80=99[0].) I think the real and thornier question for GuixSD is: if the recent CPU vulnerabilities require a microcode update to fully mitigate, then how do we square not recommending proprietary globs like this in official channels with giving users all knowledge required to decide for themselve= s? > It is not required for the processor to function, it is merely *a > posteriori* data that the CPU can use to fix erratic behaviour. AIUI, at least on x86 CPUs, the microcode *is* a large and/or functional part of the processor. I suspect that's the case for most sufficiently modern (complex) chips, but it's not my field. Kind regards, T G-R [0]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/11/msg00109.html, https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=3Dmicrocode --fCfCDasBsms9Cr5T3HbmBjQYOpUvIu3sj-- --9cEhbiu1WAqi74iMjVsncjEYrKUFYmTJl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iIMEARYKACsWIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCWlPnzQ0cbWVAdG9iaWFz LmdyAAoJEA2w/4hPVW15O4MBAMueyIpkwoTdO0JXhpMaW65fhmKr2MqZkZZ9854C nJEiAQD/UfFnSpZQLu+uH3+xuPcllycNd9dyv7ZMxZXB+a+sAw== =hqQ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9cEhbiu1WAqi74iMjVsncjEYrKUFYmTJl--