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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 22:19:08 +0000 Message-Id: <746FC12F-B974-4A59-83CF-8FA848795D37@teulu.org> References: <20220221200908.632ddf85@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: <20220221200908.632ddf85@riseup.net> To: raingloom X-Mailer: iPad Mail (19D52) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AuthUser: paul@teulu.org Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=23.83.212.16; envelope-from=paul@teulu.org; helo=beige.elm.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645481999; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=heM26OIhMPWvt3EfMAQvtZc5LGdNBcNYEPhzxi9JKSg=; b=srjKwZQtzazdUFnhKF1X0aHjkfCcd/RJabV24duJoUUdaqjYMrZMnaIlPSwpHIVKK4I0nG Phj4kXIc7kPFOZEr98FWUDluBCAlLHaFVqsXujvsQtcsef3JWGVshHHQzP/ebJ8jhV1fmu 4ft7W5r3e1gOeM+t/R5bWYhNETaXJ0H5QO134uS2X9WptHsh7z7agn5PREFrH8Ty9R3D/7 29xTra6AK6iPrEF6I9jpJdu0n+iG/SCdcv12CMmjPIERpOTUvC3wccTiRPne1oKli1CGZt /ej8zohPiGlnMBrDX7Q5zmKs1uVUihtd/QikEUYzsu8n+/xsknU88VXe33HhdQ== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645481999; a=rsa-sha256; cv=fail; b=nKNDZTqSzRQgr/cie3ex9EROUVN2I0I0KNiJzXTeV2n7aUHgOHiIsLlEy6Sy5zj4/SfUpX EktNGxC0pUXHjMCAgwCMda6MOtOWAw+4Bc+Xn1chXYn1nSoXsX1J1TrZSw5USgQaZ4Tl44 vUriyQLjXv1mSL09oYB7LdZNqbKE9EfDn2221oU97EFusYC84tIt8E/v0SmIlIHJE1muti 2Mdk8f5CGPlVrkG9z5IH8N8hc/cTaXpcMFsV4r5wcCsd482lJPdELFxTdo8tP9WgmKJbpI xvSFs+eyDOUO/47K7EtXBt4GRYFaMRZlbjIqvQQggnSfZpX0MWq63KNYJaOA8A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=teulu.org header.s=default header.b=jj9mW246; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:mailchannels.net:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.37 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=teulu.org header.s=default header.b=jj9mW246; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:mailchannels.net:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2BCFB138D3 X-Spam-Score: 0.37 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: gfbad7l1ogsK > On 21 Feb 2022, at 19:10, raingloom =20 > By the way, I think it's kind of silly that that is completely banned > from discussion. When I wanted help on getting my GPU to work, I > mentioned for reference purposes that I tried the proprietary driver > from The Forbidden Channel - and was subsequently warned that I must > not do that. I understand that the position taken by guix is more nuanced than that. The p= roject doesn=E2=80=99t seek to control what you run on your computer, but wo= n=E2=80=99t support your choice to run non-free software in the official cha= nnels.=20 > Which I find ridiculous. You can't even discuss results > obtained by running closed source drivers and firmware, so how do you > debug the libre firmwares and drivers, when you have nothing to compare > against? But you can discuss these results elsewhere. > Also, I think people who want to overwhelmingly use free software but > need proprietary drivers for their computer to function should be > offered better help than "buy a new computer". I kind of agree with you here. I don=E2=80=99t want to obsolete perfectly vi= able hardware, but instead want to use it for its whole life. Next time I am= in the market for new hardware, then I will have the ability to run libre-s= oftware as a pre-condition for purchase. > I think The Forbidden Channel should be raised to a status similar to > the AUR: it's recognized and its existence is documented, but all > responsibility is very explicitly disclaimed and support is relegated > to special channels. Users will find it even the way it is configured today. I don=E2=80=99t thin= k it needs any sort of official recognition or promotion, as that will go ag= ainst the project goals/rules (as I understand it). We should always be awar= e of the insidious nature of proprietary firmware/software, and work to elim= inate the need for it, rather than indicating that its use is acceptable as a= first choice. Best regards, Paul=