From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id wLbCNCAyOWSEIQEASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:59:44 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id yCl/NCAyOWSVAwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:59:44 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76C1F7CCB for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnH9F-0001n7-BV; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:59:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnH9C-0001l8-Um for guix-science@gnu.org; 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dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=inserm.fr (policy=none) X-TUID: Xb/9PXIcnXr4 Hi Konrad, all, French speakers, here is an interesting presentation by Konrad about the st= ate of Python for scientific computing and reproducibility. https://reproducibility.gricad-pages.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/web/presentatio= n_110423.html#presentation_110423 Without watching the video, here the questions I would like to discuss. :-)= =20 1. Considering the Konrad's schema of some scientific computation (Model --= technical choices--> Code --computational env--> Results), there are also t= echnical choices about the computational environment, but they are implicit= . And often impossible to scrutinize because of the lack of transparency. = The key, IMHO, is not the determinism of the computation, instead the key = is its transparency. Determinism is one mean to obtain transparency and de= terminism is not the only mean. For instance, this determinism is not affo= rdable for very intensive computation, where is not doable to repeat. How = to think about determinism considering statistical training of machine lear= ning models? Other said, for some cases, the "compilation" (Code -> Result= s) of the scientific model is too costly. 2. The "redo" of computations is only possible when the citation is correct= . L'Inria is somehow proposing with the= BibLaTeX style . However, this only= captures, at best, some technical choices when implementing the model. An= d this does not capture at all the complete computational environment. Wha= t are your ideas for tackling this issue about the citation? For instance, the file "guix describe -f channels" is one mean for capturin= g (and cite too!) one computational environment. Do we need to make it mor= e popular? How to link this mean with the archiving part of source code (r= elying on SWH, say)? Cheers, simon