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[85.127.52.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bm5-20020a0564020b0500b0052e7e1931e2sm2961105edb.57.2023.09.09.22.51.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 09 Sep 2023 22:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <70b4a86b71a7c930b1446447219e037c6d023f6b.camel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pinned/fixed versions should be a requirement. From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: Distopico Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 07:51:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bkea23ya.fsf@riseup.net> References: <87h6o9pbbv.fsf@riseup.net> <4f054d0dc06d72d3e3c3d8cf368aa46ea7417552.camel@gmail.com> <87bkea23ya.fsf@riseup.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::544; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x544.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A5520376BB X-TUID: 7Un553kQf880 Am Samstag, dem 09.09.2023 um 20:37 -0500 schrieb Distopico: >=20 > On 2023-09-10, Liliana Marie Prikler > wrote: > >=20 > > [bunch of stuff regarding Rust] >=20 >=20 > Beyond Rust, an example of a language/packages ecosystem that does > not follow semantic versioning at all is JavaScript/Npm. Most > packages in node-xyz[1] do not reference a version; they simply use > the global input. For now, the number of npm/node packages is small, > but with time, that could become a problem. I don't think that pinning versions is going to help us much in the npm case. The node packaging model allows inputs to be propagated beyond reason. And the response of those gazing into the abyss for any longer than two seconds is quite often "fuck it, I'm out" [1]. I don't think we'll get far in packaging node stuff without solving the more fundamental issue of "how can I replace this JS file with this JS file and not have my entire tower of dependencies break down?" and that is a social issue as much as it is a technical one. Cheers [1] https://dustycloud.org/blog/javascript-packaging-dystopia/