From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2C8iOoGZw2DAQgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:12:33 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id oBagNYGZw2BmKQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 17:12:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79CE719BD1 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:12:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrkhs-0006Ef-He for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:12:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37140) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lrkhP-0006At-51 for guix-patches@gnu.org; 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11 Jun 2021 17:11:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39870 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrkhF-000855-Ej for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:11:53 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:65278) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lrkhB-00084u-Vp for 48924@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:11:52 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G1nSf29Bbz3x6h; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:11:46 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623431506; bh=r0m+NB7UiU223Tb8pgAYcEZFbscRIta4rAYjYyLVZkU=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=IAwlaBU4+DhyhvczSLCPlOXVWODUYtHPrUR3v54HYpvqycyCwoui1byDb5UlC/7eP nxOv1YNdaqJ+ggmYNzRU7WwhUz1AC46IVyklUTgVxRzOAnV9YIP3z8fVsHSj0PoKBm VNlmF7UOVaWaEXndbj67yY3wAJlBXt+X6bLpIu0I= Message-ID: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:11:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h7i45p9y.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@student.tugraz.at> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.117 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623431553; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=r0m+NB7UiU223Tb8pgAYcEZFbscRIta4rAYjYyLVZkU=; b=sjv1KjdTVNMDxnQHJ1lAO1I74aQdWto+y++n3JPxFAcCbz8vhTS9zwAH8HsplRtfjqXIvH B9H2oYOyZOrXpEveZHqjVrSa07/xso69C5+cHQ2PaZEwqOT57nXZ4MhUKpd0m2cugL+qEb 33aRgB7BK4eSszz/0hNInbivkmOKsteClWIwtTaWM9NOjA346K0cGSGuZtgggYEsB63qZi z4Qsf7WnsEwzlwVJY0fsHnoi9cENbEookfjm8OZmEFWWnWSHBIl/Qs2KYotV+TkmEJiGz9 hM2UxmuAX4w8xg11571o2geRrjI3zDc1sfDC6J8CVJx0qMXHCtKKjnczjCWO2w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623431553; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=U9JB+ttIP+eviomuZETwBLJKVhqG49IaU0JrKd904rIFp0UswJ/se7dWimxYb++IcQOgOk zTPPJT/HxxUmE+hlWTTEq5C10STZTJroiYvlTt58aYsIZGYG/atQQUYQbHdJ7MfJh5fLEy kDV7maG+79alF/9ZOhMF9n4FEYI1nCs8uNK7GOBQlegECZkOrc+MP9RPFxzKhbIxmDqSDy 6igTV6hybg3O3cDfvB6oVhprBNX1HmefURXaBpI96jXjHALinRjsbeDwI/GsLdy7BMUS+S /J4/kNaeZb9wmsxmnfZMThIqTo6BqLJwgoEgJCp3x6bpUINQ7jmkkVgUUU3Uxw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=IAwlaBU4; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=IAwlaBU4; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 79CE719BD1 X-Spam-Score: -1.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: izmR/FF6ZaOu Hi, Am Freitag, den 11.06.2021, 18:39 +0200 schrieb Ludovic Courtès: > > This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I > > think > > that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be > > it, > > that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can > > *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that > > the > > latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful > > linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > > Given the maintenance cost, we’d need a more convincing argument than > “should be usable”. :-) > > So it seems to me that we’re done with it as far as inclusion in Guix > is concerned. Thoughts? > > It’s typically a situation where an external channel is more > appropriate, IMO. I'm definitely leaning towards not including it as-is/perhaps having it in an external channel as well, but I don't think "high maintenance" should generally be a deterrent against a functioning package (or rather the only reason to keep a package from being included). Guix already has packages, that I would consider to be of higher maintenance, e.g. GNOME, and I do think it would help Guix users if (parts of) systemd became a viable option. I am simply doubting the functionality of this package as it currently exists. That said, I don't think myself to be in a place to make accurate judgements about entry requirements. I suggested “should be usable” as a bare minimum because it seemed easy to convey. There are also other things to consider, like coding style, adherence to packaging guidelines, etc. with maintainability somewhere among them, but I can't really phrase all of those well into a simple sentence. I also think that some reviewer should be able to take an already functioning package description and perform cosmetic changes to transform it into one better suited for Guix, though that might be a bit of a controversial statement. Regards, Leo