From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id V+VFERz2NGJ6AgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:14:04 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id yLeBDRz2NGJ4OAEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:14:04 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8D231F538 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:14:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44834 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVJv8-0005kN-LX for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 17:14:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35574) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVJuw-0005i5-HP; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 17:13:50 -0400 Received: from server0.selfhosted.xyz ([217.64.149.7]:48732) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVJuu-0002Yi-Dp; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 17:13:50 -0400 Received: from server0.selfhosted.xyz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server0.selfhosted.xyz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D22829DE1BE; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:13:33 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=selfhosted.xyz; s=dkim; t=1647638019; bh=VBAT5Xjoq61HHCwQds15x4wX3MPNwd0mDzosQWNJxQM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=QilogaebAVWIhlDBZ3M6sJyUt3FQ0iCaqxoGPJZpP4yxDkDL2GdwMhyQnSvorFavG 4bpuI/iHa1SZdp0itVNQ5TvF4VAAVW7U+6vG1ZDUnEmC2VHwN0IijbGQh4KMLDoSpN f58XvrvjDF1pAXTH/3bpCXGdLZsxNjlqcB7wwLKPkbR4GEyS+m6+M89ic0mSuOkG/0 b9kampIR4f1BNtlLKK9SXvgCzKMAogQtp5KCLkCqV53+7H3ilOw5n6BeyyL6pjSGLL 9F34u+I4aGrriJ1jsCiQgrfWRfBPDnpNb2mPg/PXfHhyxCwrW6K6T2dbJpBrY500WB kHwo9+kIm/55A== X-Fuglu-Suspect: 540c5911e9194526a0d24fad5e93dee1 X-Fuglu-Spamstatus: NO Received: from webmail.selfhosted.xyz (office.selfhosted.xyz [192.168.1.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mail@selfhosted.xyz) by server0.selfhosted.xyz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:13:32 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:13:32 +0100 From: david larsson To: zimoun Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works In-Reply-To: <87ee3091ql.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ee3091ql.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <699ed5cd32d656ae03e05994026784e5@selfhosted.xyz> X-Sender: david.larsson@selfhosted.xyz Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.64.149.7; envelope-from=david.larsson@selfhosted.xyz; helo=server0.selfhosted.xyz X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.997, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647638044; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=VBAT5Xjoq61HHCwQds15x4wX3MPNwd0mDzosQWNJxQM=; b=bB6bdeK1j3QRsus7FuOfLTJYnzCZCaG259IUppuvefNb9JVLN96ECECnfrw639uOM3mbTA KkmwxmlrqfD1qXhzO/RVbEgntYN868XQjndm3yzr008x0zA69xg4uBSQgzH+Pf5lHvUX2A AdSVTeHwlpxbpraaxKIlmFdKje2csol+22TTtlivOSv0xRHnzFsvom+eT4PItJ3hQTm0Dr sGzSgCoEQE+RNQS9mgS60TEavmIjTUedvTV/kD+nSFRRdxlW+1YzpKFEpbn0w3qS67vFnz sgzb+g/78R5OUkMYeXA1plcck5OYjzFleSR3lNjOP3iEBt49NJYWmGqEke0zOg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647638044; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bsD/J5WAajx3Yxm5Em5pDZ1MN0+BzasysWL2WoDeRvmSbNi65sxqUk+UJCjPMLVEI6WBEt k8DdQ9yMJIX5wJ4OeUj01wEEzATciMlO6oinYUI4q0XtxidFYX3Zea4DUNd0GAkdTtpO+j xQ+gStN21+ksiTrkhGm50p+x9WqK276LcqPNibZLZGRYQtwe5GWc1ZkoClSrCmfu8MshSY oXcuoaJ37ODGCqAkwbWM48sRjEZt17Zkmnuvj9OUzdaVeR5MUrjJkvKEQpinvpQJ/f7Rmj HdEMqVaxt9VFUq61QQfQ5Hdcjyern0h+a0cj2QBrYz1nqtTLOld25q6VD16oRw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=selfhosted.xyz header.s=dkim header.b=Qilogaeb; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=selfhosted.xyz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=selfhosted.xyz header.s=dkim header.b=Qilogaeb; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=selfhosted.xyz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C8D231F538 X-Spam-Score: -9.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: /N8UprEeYsla On 2022-03-17 13:56, zimoun wrote: > Hi Olivier, > >> On another note, what I find fascinating is why Guix and Nix are not >> more used in academic papers. > > Indeed. > > One part of the answer is, IMHO: it is difficult to spread the word. > > For instance, with co-authors, we have tried to write a short paper > detailing what Guix solves, i.e., the computational environment part of > the “science crisis“, and targeting especially bioinfo folks. We got > many refusals by the journals that bioinfo folks indeed read and we end > in a “specialized” journal. > > On the top of that, add the fact that most of the time, people use what > other people in their lab or collaborators already use. > > On the top of that, add the fact that the story of Guix on Windows or > Mac is not really good. I am not arguing here, just to mention that > many people are still using Windows or Mac and few one Linux variant. > > Therefore, all in all, the bootstrap of Guix is hard; as always. :-) > > The initiative Guix-HPC is an attempt to address that. The name is > probably not fully representative since now it looks like Guix in > scientific context; HPC being only one component. > > From my point of view, the bootstrap of Guix in scientific world > requires more documentation materials for many common use cases and > more > popular applications or usual scientific stack. For instance PyTorch > in > Guix is one step but many things are still really hard to do with Guix > when it is not elsewhere. Another instance is RStudio for bioinfo > folks > – it does not work out of the box with Guix when it does elsewhere. > > Help in these both areas – howto materials and popular applications – > is > very welcome. :-) > > Join the fun, join guix-science@gnu.org :-) > > > Cheers, > simon I run Guix including GUI applications from Windows via WSL2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux). It may help some to try it out if this setup was easier and more documented, though I suppose that is somewhat prevented to go via official channels by the FSDG guidelines. Best regards, David