From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id EGlqK7c57l+SbAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 20:51:03 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id UKB+J7c57l/OYQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 20:51:03 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 682A79404D5 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 20:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44014 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kv4uU-0003Aw-Cg for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:51:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56056) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kv4uH-0003AX-MD for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:50:49 -0500 Received: from 101b.relay.hey.com ([204.62.115.196]:49187) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kv4uF-0006PP-Pw for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:50:49 -0500 Received: from hey.com (bigip-vip-new.rw-ash-int.37signals.com [10.20.0.24]) by 101.relay.hey.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F79A1715; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 20:50:45 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hey.com; s=heymail; t=1609447846; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to; bh=yp9sWc/vYmBhJpO7Otm0912PiCW2cJ9n00M6MixBIP0=; b=vIMU6ooL6klwE5G0CF0Na8tqwL6hXNqwmwwCNg+qE8pVDqc81iqBphrpAxaIePe9hUsa2g EoE+KsebXWiE03ne6Oft3cqV8YQ3SywfIXLcPztcFJHzBQO8RYNmlGtopwzpID5dLiGBb5 4YH9NxqkwPINVA1oRQ7lXFNssa9LDfIyKlMChJgTeULfRAnyNpsosERKPkNWFqRd2cgXA2 fm0TtLwqdrUrMTYNuVwEIU8A9K+I3ke1Cwjdc+qQQx3+PVDuJze3gfGtO6oPnjS5J9RITJ 6m1kv6VzHFK5nLVj9caYW9sJ+vtVyWpOrlC4guv6hIM8j4drcPa88byMXEM20Q== Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 20:50:45 +0000 From: Ryan Prior To: Josh Marshall , Leo Famulari Message-ID: <57cc687423ef554f64848a732b45bc94b539345d@hey.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How would packaging Steam-proton games be received? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_5fee39a5e4748_22c32ff8978ea"; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=204.62.115.196; envelope-from=ryanprior@hey.com; helo=101b.relay.hey.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.53 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=hey.com header.s=heymail header.b=vIMU6ooL; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=hey.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 682A79404D5 X-Spam-Score: -1.53 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: AwAkoZIU3XE4 ----==_mimepart_5fee39a5e4748_22c32ff8978ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know in depth how Proton works internally, but I think it includes non free DLLs, including DRM support, to improve compatibility with Windows games. If my understanding is correct, shipping Proton and games that depend on it as part of Guix would be a tacit endorsement of proprietary software that exercises unjust control over users. The GNU project, as a matter of policy, does not recommend non free software components, or free components like DRM that are exclusively useful for restraining user freedoms, so that may be a dead end. I like your energy in this thread though and agree that it would be great if we could help gamers break out of the ugly Steam ecosystem. Itch is an independent game distributor and they also publish all their client code as free software: https://github.com/itchio Bringing Itch to Guix might be an interesting project, if we could find a way to modify the client so that it does not recommend any games that are not free software. There's a healthy and growing list of such games here: https://itch.io/games/tag-open-source We might have to build our own game discovery portal to replace the upstream itch.io storefront, but that would be a really nice thing to have in general. Itch has its own tools for game developers to build their game and ship updates to their users. For example, they designed their own protocol for shipping new game builds using minimal resources: https://github.com/itchio/wharf It would be beneficial if Guix could learn some of Itch's tricks, to support fast moving projects that want to ship frequent updates to users. ----==_mimepart_5fee39a5e4748_22c32ff8978ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know in depth how Proton works internally, but I think it = includes non free DLLs, including DRM support, to improve compatibility w= ith Windows games. If my understanding is correct, shipping Proton and ga= mes that depend on it as part of Guix would be a tacit endorsement of pro= prietary software that exercises unjust control over users. The GNU proje= ct, as a matter of policy, does not recommend non free software component= s, or free components like DRM that are exclusively useful for restrainin= g user freedoms, so that may be a dead end.

I like your energy in = this thread though and agree that it would be great if we could help game= rs break out of the ugly Steam ecosystem. Itch is an independent game dis= tributor and they also publish all their client code as free software: ht= tps://github.com/itchio

Bringing Itch to Guix might be an interest= ing project, if we could find a way to modify the client so that it does = not recommend any games that are not free software. There's a healthy and= growing list of such games here: https://itch.io/games/tag-open-source
We might have to build our own game discovery portal to replace the= upstream itch.io storefront, but that would be a really nice thing to ha= ve in general.

Itch has its own tools for game developers to build= their game and ship updates to their users. For example, they designed t= heir own protocol for shipping new game builds using minimal resources: h= ttps://github.com/itchio/wharf

It would be beneficial if Guix coul= d learn some of Itch's tricks, to support fast moving projects that want = to ship frequent updates to users.
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