From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?UTF-8?B?UXVpbGlybyBPcmTDs8OxZXogQmFjYQ==?= Subject: university group willing to contribute to GUIX Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:53:40 -0500 Message-ID: <52ED34A4.3020104@congresolibre.org> References: <87k3dhchxj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ejbIOtjLSlIGV7DSha807T5DWRRfmPetW" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W9elP-0003wf-J9 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:54:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W9elK-00039m-8v for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:53:55 -0500 Received: from host.saaslibre.info ([74.207.242.230]:47417) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W9elJ-00039g-P2 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:53:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by host.saaslibre.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CAF2EBE1 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:53:46 -0500 (ECT) Received: from host.saaslibre.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (host.saaslibre.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXLnHoOYohaE for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:53:44 -0500 (ECT) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (unknown [186.69.147.2]) (Authenticated sender: quiliro@congresolibre.org) by host.saaslibre.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C9692EBE0 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:53:42 -0500 (ECT) In-Reply-To: <87k3dhchxj.fsf@gnu.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: guix-devel@gnu.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ejbIOtjLSlIGV7DSha807T5DWRRfmPetW Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060804080009030907040602" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060804080009030907040602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, This a conversation held on several mails with Civodud over the collaboration of 9 volunteers for GUIX Distro: -------- Mensaje original -------- From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) To: Quiliro Ord=C3=B3=C3=B1ez Baca Hi Quiliro, Quiliro Ord=C3=B3=C3=B1ez Baca skribis: > There is a university that wants to make their own distro. I suggested > to use GUIX. They offered to pay me to help with the project. But I tol= d > them I am starting my time bank. I they want my collboration, I would > ask for them to pay me in hours. I propose the same thing to you. These= > people will collaborate in your project in exchage for your help. If yo= u > have another proposal, please tell me. > > I suggested them that they do not fork. I suggested they make their own= > ISO and desktop theme and to have a local mirror of GUIX packages. That= > way GUIX helps them and they help GUIX. They will incorporate the > following team: > > * 6 students that know how to program in C, C++ and Java (40 working > weeks, 5 days per week, 2 hours per day =3D 2400 person/hours) > * 1 student from graphic design (time allotment to be negotiated) > * 1 student from management (time allotment to be negotiated) > * 1 student from communications (not telecommunications) (time > allotment to be negotiated) > * the directors of those 3 departments will help coordinate > > Are you willing to help us? Yes, but only in the same way that I help anyone who tries to get involved, as this is purely volunteer work. So this is really best effort, so to speak. I think this is a great project. However, getting young students started to work on such a project probably requires a fair amount of mentoring: probably they=E2=80=99ll have to learn about how free software= hackers communicate, how patch submission and review work, what the software stack looks like, etc. I don=E2=80=99t think I can spend this m= uch effort, as this would effectively prevent me from doing anything else. If you do the heavy lifting, then that may be easier, of course. What do you think? > I can do the heavy-lifting. I have some gaps about the things you=20 > mention. If you send links to the docs I can deal with that. > > The big question is: do you think, based on the knowledge level I have = > told you they have (programming in C, C++ and Java), the students will = > be able to have the distro ready for use of end users in that timeframe= =20 > (1 year)? Short answer: probably not. As discussed before, two things to consider: 1. Students will most likely discover how free software development works, which means they will probably not be =E2=80=9Cproductive=E2=80= =9D at least in the first few months. The goal should be to =E2=80=9Cget them st= arted with free software development=E2=80=9D, rather than to =E2=80=9Cbui= ld a distro=E2=80=9D (BTW, note that Guix is 1.5 year old, to give an idea of the effort.) 2. Work on the distro happens anyway. By =E2=80=9Cend users=E2=80=9D, = I think you mean with a fancy desktop =C3=A0 la GNOME. That work may happen in = the coming year anyway, but at the same time, most early contributors are hackers with little interest in such things. Hope this helps. Please think through it, and follow-up on guix-devel@gnu.org when you have clearer ideas. Depending on what you really want to do, it might be that students would be better off contributing to a well-established distro like Trisquel. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. Here is a conversation held on IRC #guix channel: (15:18:09)*Quiliro:*a university is playing with my suggestion to collaborate with guix (15:18:21)*Quiliro:*not with money but with 6 it students (15:18:32)*Quiliro:*oh fosdem! (15:18:39)*Quiliro:*live streaming? (15:19:10)*Quiliro:*and 1 management, 1 art and 1 communication student (15:19:27)*Quiliro:*10 hours per week....40 weeks (15:19:52)*viric:*luckily students don't need money (15:21:41)*Quiliro:*viric: haha...yes they do...but they need the diploma more (15:44:05)*Steap:*Students only need coffee. (15:44:14)*Steap:*Pretty much like programmers. (15:44:37)*Steap:*quiliro: what would the non-IT students do ? (15:48:08)*Quiliro:*Steap: the management student will find the needs of the different areas and what to include in specific groupings of packages....for example: what does a the hotel and tourism professional will need in his distro.....s/he will also see that the team works as a team (the other students) (15:49:30)*Quiliro:*the communications student will work with the art student to see that the presentation and accessibility is good....and he will also make a good name for the distro with press coverage and the lik= es (15:50:21)*Quiliro:*the art/design student will make the artistic par..icons, art of the distro, wallpapers, fonts, etc (15:50:29)*Quiliro:*that is my idea (15:50:41)*Quiliro:*what do you think? any other areas? (15:52:01)*Quiliro:*so that will be 2400 IT hours and 1200 non-IT for GUI= X (15:52:40)*Quiliro:*3600 hours...of course they will cost...the knowledge we will give them is not gratis (15:53:03)*Quiliro:*it is free but not gratis (15:53:11)*Quiliro:*it is libre (15:57:53)*Steap:*call me a grumpy hacker if you like, but I'm a bit afraid of waht the "communication" student might do (15:58:17)*Steap:*Because we do not try to force-feed people with Guix :)= (15:58:32)*Steap:*And well, management is pretty much useless. (15:59:04)*Steap:*The art student would probably the most useful, since developers aren't usually extremely gifted when it comes to designing logos and such (16:01:48)*mark_weaver:*quiliro: it would probably be best to talk about this over email, on the guix-devel@gnu.org mailing list. I know that civodul prefers to communicate that way for most things. (16:04:48)*Steap:*Yes, such important matters should probably be discussed over email, since not everybody idles on IRC 24/7 (16:12:23)*civodul:*yes, good idea (16:14:05)*Quiliro:*ok...the idea is to make a free distro....is devel the right list? (16:14:40)*Quiliro:*or gnu-linux-libre (16:14:49)*civodul:*hey quiliro (16:15:00)*civodul:*quiliro: if the project is specifically about using Guix, the guix-devel is the right list, yes (16:15:03)*Quiliro:*bonsoir civodul (16:15:09)*civodul:*bonsoir ;-) (16:15:30)*Quiliro:*yes...the guix 100% free distro (16:16:50)*civodul:*right, so guix-devel is the place (16:17:09)*civodul:*it's the only mailing list actually, so don't be afraid just because it has "devel" in it ;-) (16:17:11)*Quiliro:*cool (16:17:17)*Quiliro:*haha (16:17:59)*Quiliro:*i think guix is the friendliest developer distro for the way it packages the programs (16:18:11)*Quiliro:*for the little i know about programming (16:18:28)*Quiliro:*but it loks friendly (16:18:39)*Quiliro:*i saw the august presentation (16:18:58)*civodul:*heh (16:19:18)*Quiliro:*The big question is: do you think, based on the knowledge level I have told you they have (programming in C, C++ and Java), the students will be able to have the distro ready for use of end users in that timeframe (1 year)? (16:19:42)*Quiliro:*it should have a desktop (16:19:50)*Quiliro:*:-D (16:20:36)*Quiliro:*in "normal-people" speak (as my ex-girlfriend used to tell me to talk to her) (16:24:49)*civodul:*quiliro: probably not, but i do hope the rest of us will have it "ready" by then ;-) (16:25:12)*civodul:*for students it should be thought of as a way to get familiar with free software development in general (16:25:18)*civodul:*not as a way to build a product (16:25:23)****civodul*goes back preparing his talk (16:27:09)****Steap*hates the word "product" (16:27:40)*mark_weaver:*+1 (16:27:51)*Steap:*quiliro: it really depends upon their background, I thi= nk (16:28:04)*Steap:*When I was a student, most of the IT students hated IT = :) (16:28:28)*Steap:*Needless to say they were not that good. (16:28:55)*civodul:*mark_weaver: me too, but i must have been too much exposed to IT marketing newspeak :-) (16:30:47)*Quiliro:*it is very important that it is usable by the end user in 1 year....what is necessary for that to occur? (16:31:06)*Quiliro:*will the students be of help or will they be a load? (16:31:56)*Quiliro:*i wanted them to come to guix because i want guix to grow (16:32:20)*Steap:*quiliro: packaging a DE would be the biggest part (16:32:33)*Quiliro:*but if they will not help, it is better for me that they contribute somewhere else (16:32:36)*Quiliro:*ok (16:33:02)*Steap:*also, even with a DE, it's not gonna be as friendly as Ubuntu within a year (16:33:23)*Quiliro:*why? (16:33:45)*Steap:*well, we'd need a nice GUI such as Synpatic on top of the package manager (16:33:51)*Steap:*Synaptic* (16:34:06)*Quiliro:*don't worry about that part (16:34:15)*Quiliro:*the important part is the usability (16:34:16)*Steap:*and it's not easy to imagine what the distro is gonna be in a year (16:34:24)*Quiliro:*not installing new packages (16:34:26)*Steap:*quiliro: what do you mean by that ? (16:34:36)*Steap:*quiliro: I can already use the package manager (16:34:42)*Steap:*I know other people do (16:35:54)*Quiliro:*that the user can write emails, write text documents, spreadsheets, save and list files and use several other programs from the gui (with pretty little icosn,haha) (16:36:22)*Quiliro:*yes , it is important but that is more important for the project that university is proposing (16:36:34)*Steap:*well, we can do that in text :) (16:36:49)*Steap:*the GUI part, on the other hand... (16:37:07)*Steap:*does the distro have to wokr well, or would a package manager be enough ? (16:37:16)*Quiliro:*Steap: yes it can be done in text, but that will defeat that project objective (16:37:51)*Quiliro:*Steap: what do you mean? it is the distro that is nee= ded (16:38:22)*Steap:*quiliro: they could work on the GUI part using the package manager on top of a Debian system, for instance (16:39:18)*Quiliro:*no...the idea is that they want to make a distro...i told them not to make a fork but contribute to guix (16:39:33)*Quiliro:*but they have to show end user results (16:39:40)*Quiliro:*not console (16:39:59)*Steap:*I see. (16:40:17)*Quiliro:*unless that serves other purposes....what i mean is that they have to make something something that someone needs (16:40:50)*Quiliro:*but i want to use that to help freedom -> free distro -> guix (16:41:06)*Quiliro:*-> guix package manager (16:41:23)*Quiliro:*how about gpm? (16:41:31)*Steap:*gpm ? (16:41:44)*Quiliro:*guix package manager -> GPM (16:41:52)*Steap:*yeah (16:42:00)*Steap:*well, the GPM is already usable (16:42:03)*Quiliro:*but i do not want to get into that (16:42:10)*Quiliro:*i know (16:42:11)*Steap:*it just lacks end-user packages (16:42:17)*Steap:*so they could work on that (16:42:23)*Quiliro:*ok (16:42:47)*Quiliro:*you work on making it bootable and they work on end user packages? (16:43:03)*Quiliro:*but someone has to learn first (16:43:12)*Steap:*well, packaging stuff is "easy" (16:43:15)*Quiliro:*i will be the one to teach them (16:43:25)*Quiliro:*so.... (16:43:33)*Quiliro:*i saw the video (16:43:39)*Quiliro:*it looks very easy (16:43:48)*Quiliro:*civodul: ^ (16:43:52)*Steap:*well, you "just" have to fix errors one by one (16:44:02)*Quiliro:*what errors? (16:44:08)*Quiliro:*compilation? (16:44:14)*Steap:*well, let's say you want to package "foo" (16:44:26)*Steap:*there migth be compilation errors (16:44:29)*Quiliro:*is there some doc about that? (16:44:31)*Steap:*errors when running configure (16:44:32)*Steap:*etc. (16:44:46)*Steap:*and there's no real doc, because it depends on the software you're packaging (16:45:08)*Steap:*so, when things go wrong, this can take quite a lot of time to fix (16:45:39)*Quiliro:*who to ask when errors present? (16:46:07)*Steap:*well, you have to understand what causes them (16:46:11)*Quiliro:*where should someone start if they want to install and then contribute to guixx? (16:46:14)*Steap:*go through the source code of your package (16:46:15)*Steap:*etc. (16:46:20)*Steap:*well (16:46:25)*Steap:*1) Install Guix from git (16:46:29)*Steap:*2) Build "hello" (16:46:29)*Quiliro:*i never had a problem compiling (16:46:42)*Steap:*3) try to package something that is not yet in Guix (16:46:46)*Quiliro:*unless i changed something in configure (16:46:55)*Quiliro:*or missed a dependency (16:47:20)*Quiliro:*i think i saw those steps somewhere (16:48:20)*Steap:*they may want to try that to see if they're interested in the project (16:50:01)****Quiliro*is reading http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/= (16:51:22)*Quiliro:*Steap: how? (16:51:34)*Quiliro:*show them civodul's video? (16:52:31)*Steap:*sure (16:52:34)*Steap:*or read a recipe (16:52:37)*Steap:*copy/paste it (16:52:38)*Steap:*modify it (16:52:40)*Quiliro:*teach them to install guix distro? (16:52:41)*Steap:*see what happens (16:52:48)*Quiliro:*ok (16:52:48)*Steap:*come here for help (16:52:50)*Steap:*etc. (16:52:54)*Quiliro:*thank Steap (17:30:19)*rgc:*Steap: I see you're the support guy :) (18:50:57)*adadfd:*quiliro: re packaging, check this out: https://gnu.org/software/guix/guix-ghm-andreas-20130823.pdf (20:16:35)*Quiliro:*adadft left the chatroom (20:17:03)*Quiliro:*is there a video with the presentation he did with that pdf? (20:27:49)*zerwas:*I don't think so --------------060804080009030907040602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

This a conversation held on several mails with Civodud over the collaboration of 9 volunteers for GUIX Distro:

-------- Mensaje original --------
Fro= m: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s)
To:= Quiliro Ord=C3=B3=C3=B1ez Baca <quiliro@congresoli= bre.org> 


Hi Quiliro,

Quiliro Ord=C3=B3=C3=B1ez Baca <quiliro@congresolibre.org> =
skribis:

> There is a university that wants to make their own distro. I suggest=
ed
> to use GUIX. They offered to pay me to help with the project. But I =
told
> them I am starting my time bank. I they want my collboration, I woul=
d
> ask for them to pay me in hours. I propose the same thing to you. Th=
ese
> people will collaborate in your project in exchage for your help. If=
 you
> have another proposal, please tell me.
>
> I suggested them that they do not fork. I suggested they make their =
own
> ISO and desktop theme and to have a local mirror of GUIX packages. T=
hat
> way GUIX helps them and they help GUIX. They will incorporate the
> following team:
>
>   * 6 students that know how to program in C, C++ and Java (40 worki=
ng
>     weeks, 5 days per week, 2 hours per day =3D 2400 person/hours)
>   * 1 student from graphic design (time allotment to be negotiated)
>   * 1 student from management (time allotment to be negotiated)
>   * 1 student from communications (not telecommunications) (time
>     allotment to be negotiated)
>   * the directors of those 3 departments will help coordinate
>
> Are you willing to help us?

Yes, but only in the same way that I help anyone who tries to get
involved, as this is purely volunteer work.  So this is really best
effort, so to speak.

I think this is a great project.  However, getting young students
started to work on such a project probably requires a fair amount of
mentoring: probably they=E2=80=99ll have to learn about how free software=

hackers communicate, how patch submission and review work, what the
software stack looks like, etc.  I don=E2=80=99t think I can spend this m=
uch
effort, as this would effectively prevent me from doing anything else.
If you do the heavy lifting, then that may be easier, of course.

What do you think?


> I can do the heavy-lifting. I have some gaps about the things you=20
> mention. If you send links to the docs I can deal with that.
>
> The big question is: do you think, based on the knowledge level I ha=
ve=20
> told you they have (programming in C, C++ and Java), the students wi=
ll=20
> be able to have the distro ready for use of end users in that timefr=
ame=20
> (1 year)?

Short answer: probably not.  As discussed before, two things to
consider:

  1. Students will most likely discover how free software development
     works, which means they will probably not be =E2=80=9Cproductive=E2=80=
=9D at least
     in the first few months.  The goal should be to =E2=80=9Cget them st=
arted
     with free software development=E2=80=9D, rather than to =E2=80=9Cbui=
ld a distro=E2=80=9D
     (BTW, note that Guix is 1.5 year old, to give an idea of the
     effort.)

  2. Work on the distro happens anyway.  By =E2=80=9Cend users=E2=80=9D, =
I think you
     mean with a fancy desktop =C3=A0 la GNOME.  That work may happen in =
the
     coming year anyway, but at the same time, most early contributors
     are hackers with little interest in such things.

Hope this helps.

Please think through it, and follow-up on guix-devel@gnu.org when you=

have clearer ideas.

Depending on what you really want to do, it might be that students would
be better off contributing to a well-established distro like Trisquel.

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.


Here is a conversation held on IRC #guix channel:

(15:18:09) Quiliro: a university is playing with my suggestion to collaborate with guix
(15:18:21) Quiliro: not with money but with 6 it students
(15:18:32) Quiliro: oh fosdem!
(15:18:39) Quiliro: live streaming?
(15:19:10) Quiliro: and 1 management, 1 art and 1 communication student
= (15:19:27) Quiliro: 10 hours per week....40 weeks
(15:19:52) viric: luckily students don't need money
(15:21:41) Quiliro: viric: haha...yes they do...but they need the diploma more
(15:44:05) Steap: Students only need coffee.
(15:44:14) Steap: Pretty much like programmers.
(15:44:37) Steap: quiliro: what would the non-IT students do ?
(15:48:08) Quiliro: Steap: the management student will find the needs of th= e different areas and what to include in specific groupings of packages....for example: what does a the hotel and tourism professional will need in his distro.....s/he will also see that the team works as a team (the other students)
(15:49:30) Quiliro: the communications student will work with the art student to see that the presentation and accessibility is good....and he will also make a good name for the distro with press coverage and the likes
(15:50:21) Quiliro: the art/design student will make the artistic par..icons, art of the distro, wallpapers, fonts, etc
(15:50:29) Quiliro: that is my idea
(15:50:41) Quiliro: what do you think? any other areas?
(15:52:01) Quiliro: so that will be 2400 IT hours and 1200 non-IT for GUIX<= /font>
(15:52:40) Quiliro: 3600 hours...of course they will cost...the knowledge w= e will give them is not gratis
(15:53:03) Quiliro: it is free but not gratis
(15:53:11) Quiliro: it is libre
(15:57:53) Steap: call me a grumpy hacker if you like, but I'm a bit afraid of waht the "communication" student might do
(15:58:17) Steap: Because we do not try to force-feed people with Guix :)=
(15:58:32) Steap: And well, management is pretty much useless.
(15:59:04) Steap: The art student would probably the most useful, since developers aren't usually extremely gifted when it comes to designing logos and such
(16:01:48) mark_weaver: quiliro: it would probably be best to talk about this over email, on the guix-devel@gnu.org mailing list. I know that= civodul prefers to communicate that way for most things.
(16:04:48) Steap: Yes, such important matters should probably be discusse= d over email, since not everybody idles on IRC 24/7
(16:12:23) civodul: yes, good idea
(16:14:05) Quiliro: ok...the idea is to make a free distro....is devel the right list?
(16:14:40) Quiliro: or gnu-linux-libre
(16:14:49) civodul: hey quiliro
(16:15:00) civodul: quiliro: if the project is specifically about using Guix, the guix-devel is the right list, yes
(16:15:03) Quiliro: bonsoir civodul
(16:15:09) civodul: bonsoir ;-)
(16:15:30) Quiliro: yes...the guix 100% free distro
(16:16:50) civodul: right, so guix-devel is the place
(16:17:09) civodul: it's the only mailing list actually, so don't be afraid= just because it has "devel" in it ;-)
(16:17:11) Quiliro: cool
(16:17:17) Quiliro: haha
(16:17:59) Quiliro: i think guix is the friendliest developer distro for th= e way it packages the programs
(16:18:11) Quiliro: for the little i know about programming
(16:18:28) Quiliro: but it loks friendly
(16:18:39) Quiliro: i saw the august presentation
(16:18:58) civodul: heh
(16:19:18) Quiliro: The big question is: do you think, based on the knowledge level I have told you they have (programming in C, C++ and Java), the students will be able to have the distro ready for use of end users in that timeframe (1 year)?
(16:19:42) Quiliro: it should have a desktop
(16:19:50) Quiliro: :-D
(16:20:36) Quiliro: in "normal-people" speak (as my ex-girlfriend used to tell me to talk to her)
(16:24:49) civodul: quiliro: probably not, but i do hope the rest of us wil= l have it "ready" by then ;-)
(16:25:12) civodul: for students it should be thought of as a way to get familiar with free software development in general
(16:25:18) civodul: not as a way to build a product
(16:25:23) ***civodul= goes back preparing his talk
(16:27:09) ***Steap hates the word "product"
(16:27:40) mark_weaver: +1
(16:27:51) Steap: quiliro: it really depends upon their background, I think
(16:28:04) Steap: When I was a student, most of the IT students hated IT :)
(16:28:28) Steap: Needless to say they were not that good.
(16:28:55) civodul: mark_weaver: me too, but i must have been too much exposed to IT marketing newspeak :-)
(16:30:47) Quiliro: it is very important that it is usable by the end user in 1 year....what is necessary for that to occur?
(16:31:06) Quiliro: will the students be of help or will they be a load? (16:31:56) Quiliro: i wanted them to come to guix because i want guix to grow
(16:32:20) Steap: quiliro: packaging a DE would be the biggest part
(16:32:33) Quiliro: but if they will not help, it is better for me that the= y contribute somewhere else
(16:32:36) Quiliro: ok
(16:33:02) Steap: also, even with a DE, it's not gonna be as friendly as Ubuntu within a year
(16:33:23) Quiliro: why?
(16:33:45) Steap: well, we'd need a nice GUI such as Synpatic on top of the package manager
(16:33:51) Steap: Synaptic*
(16:34:06) Quiliro: don't worry about that part
(16:34:15) Quiliro: the important part is the usability
(16:34:16) Steap: and it's not easy to imagine what the distro is gonna b= e in a year
(16:34:24) Quiliro: not installing new packages
(16:34:26) Steap: quiliro: what do you mean by that ?
(16:34:36) Steap: quiliro: I can already use the package manager
(16:34:42) Steap: I know other people do
(16:35:54) Quiliro: that the user can write emails, write text documents, spreadsheets, save and list files and use several other programs from the gui (with pretty little icosn,haha)
(16:36:22) Quiliro: yes , it is important but that is more important for th= e project that university is proposing
(16:36:34) Steap: well, we can do that in text :)
(16:36:49) Steap: the GUI part, on the other hand...
(16:37:07) Steap: does the distro have to wokr well, or would a package manager be enough ?
(16:37:16) Quiliro: Steap: yes it can be done in text, but that will defeat= that project objective
(16:37:51) Quiliro: Steap: what do you mean? it is the distro that is neede= d
(16:38:22) Steap: quiliro: they could work on the GUI part using the package manager on top of a Debian system, for instance
(16:39:18) Quiliro: no...the idea is that they want to make a distro...i told them not to make a fork but contribute to guix
(16:39:33) Quiliro: but they have to show end user results
(16:39:40) Quiliro: not console
(16:39:59) Steap: I see.
(16:40:17) Quiliro: unless that serves other purposes....what i mean is tha= t they have to make something something that someone needs
(16:40:50) Quiliro: but i want to use that to help freedom -> free distr= o -> guix
(16:41:06) Quiliro: -> guix package manager
(16:41:23) Quiliro: how about gpm?
(16:41:31) Steap: gpm ?
(16:41:44) Quiliro: guix package manager -> GPM
(16:41:52) Steap: yeah
(16:42:00) Steap: well, the GPM is already usable
(16:42:03) Quiliro: but i do not want to get into that
(16:42:10) Quiliro: i know
(16:42:11) Steap: it just lacks end-user packages
(16:42:17) Steap: so they could work on that
(16:42:23) Quiliro: ok
(16:42:47) Quiliro: you work on making it bootable and they work on end use= r packages?
(16:43:03) Quiliro: but someone has to learn first
(16:43:12) Steap: well, packaging stuff is "easy"
(16:43:15) Quiliro: i will be the one to teach them
(16:43:25) Quiliro: so....
(16:43:33) Quiliro: i saw the video
(16:43:39) Quiliro: it looks very easy
(16:43:48) Quiliro: civodul: ^
(16:43:52) Steap: well, you "just" have to fix errors one by one
(16:44:02) Quiliro: what errors?
(16:44:08) Quiliro: compilation?
(16:44:14) Steap: well, let's say you want to package "foo"
(16:44:26) Steap: there migth be compilation errors
(16:44:29) Quiliro: is there some doc about that?
(16:44:31) Steap: errors when running configure
(16:44:32) Steap: etc.
(16:44:46) Steap: and there's no real doc, because it depends on the software you're packaging
(16:45:08) Steap: so, when things go wrong, this can take quite a lot of time to fix
(16:45:39) Quiliro: who to ask when errors present?
(16:46:07) Steap: well, you have to understand what causes them
(16:46:11) Quiliro: where should someone start if they want to install and then contribute to guixx?
(16:46:14) Steap: go through the source code of your package
(16:46:15) Steap: etc.
(16:46:20) Steap: well
(16:46:25) Steap: 1) Install Guix from git
(16:46:29) Steap: 2) Build "hello"
(16:46:29) Quiliro: i never had a problem compiling
(16:46:42) Steap: 3) try to package something that is not yet in Guix
= (16:46:46) Quiliro: unless i changed something in configure
(16:46:55) Quiliro: or missed a dependency
(16:47:20) Quiliro: i think i saw those steps somewhere
(16:48:20) Steap: they may want to try that to see if they're interested in the project
(16:50:01) ***Quiliro= is reading http://www.gnu.= org/software/guix/manual/
(16:51:22) Quiliro: Steap: how?
(16:51:34) Quiliro: show them civodul's video?
(16:52:31) Steap: sure
(16:52:34) Steap: or read a recipe
(16:52:37) Steap: copy/paste it
(16:52:38) Steap: modify it
(16:52:40) Quiliro: teach them to install guix distro?
(16:52:41) Steap: see what happens
(16:52:48) Quiliro: ok
(16:52:48) Steap: come here for help
(16:52:50) Steap: etc.
(16:52:54) Quiliro: thank Steap
(17:30:19) rgc: Steap: I see you're the support guy :)
(18:50:57) adadfd: quiliro: re packaging, check this out: https://gnu.org/software/guix/guix-ghm-andreas-20130823.pdf
(20:16:35) Quiliro: adadft left the chatroom
(20:17:03) Quiliro: is there a video with the presentation he did with that= pdf?
(20:27:49) zerwas: I don't think so --------------060804080009030907040602-- --ejbIOtjLSlIGV7DSha807T5DWRRfmPetW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJS7TSkAAoJEBvnsCQ0137tlJkH/0uWEGt9RtedLTxbZt1ft08q gQJwGQFYxBEvpEY/o/LqjjR4MlqG57ZAqTxy399OzQVA2ppjFYEHJCJnq83qjyMz L1Dw+dq0duE3s9Egiyz/zcobAzgYMpqimUXu8cbhLis3oSEdl/PhUTDXVDldaor0 IhwjppzvhWezC/Oe0Sa6k6GewsbodPhKPcjI0Bq9KxMCehA0IWsjq7wR02P6PIv2 cMAzQllbPW5G81+x2fo1qhg+j8gWafCw0eIWUtHELxJWAtCWw6ht+OH+ITOWyNp+ clyii/RO2SURxbJZ2FcXZ4+aLFjFABcJO+1nfVzAgkyr8VM+oMwIrwAoBGeHZDw= =6h0X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ejbIOtjLSlIGV7DSha807T5DWRRfmPetW--