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[85.127.52.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qw10-20020a170906fcaa00b0076f99055520sm4901538ejb.137.2022.10.16.11.50.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 16 Oct 2022 11:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <441e40f1ca4646bf6078797690167a9ee57a5ca0.camel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Guix Goals: One Hackable Developer Tool To Rule Them All From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: jgart Cc: Guix Devel Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:50:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20221016125442.GD2722@dismail.de> References: <20221013010703.GB27375@dismail.de> <866dce757bafc9e92c64582b3bc3b50a792c4e7e.camel@gmail.com> <20221016125442.GD2722@dismail.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::643; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x643.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1665947280; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=kNQt9/QCNL48SKTQUehb4k2c7rEbGu265lkcdtvpoYM=; b=EFG4X8sDv0JmAlmfRs+SJ9iuwlrDi3i/jYVOmqe7lGjzZMVKuiWOwomkZOgpBzrwmIw25n czJZcBCDw4nYmtvYlTH81pG65J2cV2mR09otoiAac4jHVJDxms86YilVPi5LBE3YKwtGP9 pGmayawSxR7IhhYxmWrlbCfSdiaNxL7ZmQtyZ8OZa4t/EqL6MXJpLHoyErdU1OzFC4yT+U oyWoyiVgUHOJW1USICIFCsw9wbKeBW8SA2RPOEf6pA+FELG9TWrGg4SdeFbbFQWM6ny8dl ZK9eqtoMkhP+Gu73uhTyiWRVu2l7JWrNIb7586r9BspHFCKvIxcKi3R6mL4qvg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1665947280; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=G580JmxUHrOKpV7clh/LNQhRknj1vjCjPmcwGrfR0jC8tgzIoYeLS5NkaIcprTwEVLE1g4 3gRz+qapkd6bAkmExZMe/VhE/1GrcJCs51ppYJT4ubJ37bnrAamsZPwGjJ1Uoc46XPkiR7 3vgQyF6cmLUOTQySqkD5yKUso3aXmS/6rAhpME0ioYcLBrKJzI87tFaDZJOxRWPS+ZYTX+ c8ynagX/njYk4IB3D98d4zaC7ef2NlTUlBANcl1dRC3ybaTZKcfUJPaSWUX0ERpIqOhvlQ tri1EvsAX3HaAFi8d2C2r+CdiCSBd+Edz5ihs5kS2y841ROaw5jf62PfAjbSDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=qLtCI5D5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.41 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=qLtCI5D5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B509D29E88 X-Spam-Score: -7.41 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: LChPOhFj4rRA Am Sonntag, dem 16.10.2022 um 12:54 -0500 schrieb jgart: > On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 15:11:38 +0200 Liliana Marie Prikler > wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, dem 13.10.2022 um 01:07 -0500 schrieb jgart: > > =C2=A0 #!/bin/sh > > =C2=A0 exec guix shell -m "$0" -- guile -e main -s "$0" "$@"=20 > > =C2=A0 !# > >=20 > > =C2=A0 (define (main args) ...) > >=20 > > =C2=A0 ... > >=20 > > =C2=A0 (specifications->manifest ...) > >=20 > > Of course, it'd be hell of a lot cleaner to separate manifest and > > business logic, but who am I to stop you? >=20 > Hi lilyp, >=20 > Yup, the latter is what I'm proposing instead of implementing a goal > for each lang =C3=A0"ala carte" as a script for each project. This =C3=A0 la carte approach will definitely break down in polyglot applications =E2=80=93 hence needing a more generic solution for the generi= c case =E2=80=93 and even when there's just one language, the fact that multi= ple compilers, linters, etc. exist and people are very opinionated on which ones to use with which options makes your goal a somewhat stupid one if you don't actually specify what it has to do on a per-project basis. > That would be like implementing part of a build-system everytime > when needed like we currently do when we needing to run pytest > instead their being first class support like was being worked on in: > https://github.com/guix-mirror/guix/tree/wip-python-pep517. >=20 > I'd like for "goals" to have first class support like guix home > configs, etc. do. But thanks for reminding us that we can just > implement it directly as needed in a script for each project. That's > a testament to the extensibility of Guix! I don't think it'd be that. Note that you have the full power of Guix/Guile at your disposal, so you can encapsulate much of it in channels. Is it a good idea to do so? Hell, no. Refusing to use the tools your colleagues are using to instead hack on your own is not a recipe for success. There are good reasons why generic build systems like make and ninja are more widely adopted than their language-focused counterparts. You're not doing anyone a favour here by forcing them to adopt a solution that has parentheses. Instead of aiming for world domination, you should try writing a tool that helps folks collaborate. Adding a guix.scm alone already does wonders in this regard, but if you really want to go beyond, you could define a set of workflows with gwl or fall back to ye good olde make and ninja. And if you don't like either, there's potato-make [1]. Cheers [1] https://github.com/spk121/potato-make