good overview presentation?

good overview presentation?

[Miles Fidelman]

Hi Folks,

Is there a good, current, overview presentation on all things GUIX?  The 
whole who, what, where, when, why, how, how much, and who cares overview 
that one might give at USENIX, describing a new distro.

I've been doing a lot of googling, and not finding anything remotely 
current.  Lots of stuff on detailed aspects, some videos (but no slides) 
from FOSDEM 2019 - but nothing that gives the big picture, the overall 
architecture, the build process, and so forth.

It seems like the release of v1.0.0 merits a serious 
intro/overview/tutorial for those of us who might be interested in 
exploring/adopting GUIX.

If there's such a beast floating around, could someone point me at it 
(and maybe add a prominent link at https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/).

If not... a polite suggestion to the team:  Nobody else can put 
something together, it's all too new, and you're the only folks who have 
the big picture.  Please share!

Miles Fidelman


-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

Re: good overview presentation?

[Christopher Baines]

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Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> writes:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Is there a good, current, overview presentation on all things GUIX?
> The whole who, what, where, when, why, how, how much, and who cares
> overview that one might give at USENIX, describing a new distro.
>
> I've been doing a lot of googling, and not finding anything remotely
> current.  Lots of stuff on detailed aspects, some videos (but no
> slides) from FOSDEM 2019 - but nothing that gives the big picture, the
> overall architecture, the build process, and so forth.
>
> It seems like the release of v1.0.0 merits a serious
> intro/overview/tutorial for those of us who might be interested in
> exploring/adopting GUIX.
>
> If there's such a beast floating around, could someone point me at it
> (and maybe add a prominent link at
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/).
>
> If not... a polite suggestion to the team:  Nobody else can put
> something together, it's all too new, and you're the only folks who
> have the big picture.  Please share!

Hi Miles,

There are some talks described here [1]. Guix has only been around as a
project for the last ~7 years, so recency shouldn't be too much of an
issue, especially if you're interested in a more general overview.

1: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/talks

There's also two talks [2] which I've given in the past on Guix, they're
a few years old, but I think most of the material is still correct.

2: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/

The FOSDEM 2018 one is shorter, and higher level [3].

3: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/fosdem-2018/presentation/#/

The Freenode live! 2017 one is longer and more technical [4].

4: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/freenode-live-2017/presentation/#/

Chris

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Re: good overview presentation?

[Miles Fidelman]

Thanks Chris,

A couple of follow-ups:

On 5/9/19 12:39 PM, Christopher Baines wrote:
>
> 1: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/talks
>
> There's also two talks [2] which I've given in the past on Guix, they're
> a few years old, but I think most of the material is still correct.
>
Silly me, but how does one view these things?  The ones labeled with 
.pdf extensions come across as ascii files, that can't be read as pdf, 
and others look like they have to be assembled.

These are pretty good, and helpful - but they do raise a key question:


> 2: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/
>
> The FOSDEM 2018 one is shorter, and higher level [3].
>
> 3: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/fosdem-2018/presentation/#/
>
> The Freenode live! 2017 one is longer and more technical [4].
>
> 4: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/freenode-live-2017/presentation/#/

 From the slides, it looks like GUIX keeps track of dependencies, but 
there's no discussion about how dependencies are identified, included in 
the package definitions, or resolved at install time. Details (or 
pointer) please!

Thanks Again,

Miles



-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

Re: good overview presentation?

[Christopher Baines]

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Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> writes:

> Thanks Chris,
>
> A couple of follow-ups:
>
> On 5/9/19 12:39 PM, Christopher Baines wrote:
>>
>> 1: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/talks
>>
>> There's also two talks [2] which I've given in the past on Guix, they're
>> a few years old, but I think most of the material is still correct.
>>
> Silly me, but how does one view these things?  The ones labeled with
> .pdf extensions come across as ascii files, that can't be read as pdf,
> and others look like they have to be assembled.

There might be a "plain" link, which you can use to download the file,
and then open it once it's downloaded. Alternatively, clone the Git
repository and browse the files on your computer.

>> 2: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/
>>
>> The FOSDEM 2018 one is shorter, and higher level [3].
>>
>> 3: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/fosdem-2018/presentation/#/
>>
>> The Freenode live! 2017 one is longer and more technical [4].
>>
>> 4: https://www.cbaines.net/projects/guix/freenode-live-2017/presentation/#/
>
> From the slides, it looks like GUIX keeps track of dependencies, but
> there's no discussion about how dependencies are identified, included
> in the package definitions, or resolved at install time. Details (or
> pointer) please!

I'm not sure there's a great reference for these, so dependencies are
not really identified, but when you define a package you declare some
"inputs". There are 3 relevant fields in the package record, inputs,
native-inputs, and propagated-inputs.

Generally, the runtime dependencies are a subset of the build
inputs. Specifically the ones that are still referenced in the generated
outputs from the build. The propagated-inputs will also be installed
alongside the package if it's installed.

Dependencies aren't resolved at install time, they're exactly specified
when the package is built. However, Guix does have a concept of search
paths, which helps some software connect things up at runtime. For
example, when you install python, and python-numpy, Guix will set the
PYTHONPATH environment variable in the profile, so that Python can find
the relevant packages.

Chris

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Re: good overview presentation?

[Giovanni Biscuolo]

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Hello Miles,

Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> writes:

> Thanks Chris,
>
> A couple of follow-ups:
>
> On 5/9/19 12:39 PM, Christopher Baines wrote:
>>
>> 1: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/talks
>>
>> There's also two talks [2] which I've given in the past on Guix, they're
>> a few years old, but I think most of the material is still correct.
>>
> Silly me, but how does one view these things?  The ones labeled with 
> .pdf extensions come across as ascii files, that can't be read as pdf,

maintenance.git and its cgit interface is not it's not intended as a
"site substitute", it's an anchive where Guix developers share common
work in the community

...anyway, for each media-like file there is a "plain" labelled link
near the blob code, right above the table with hex and ascii code of the
git object: that link will download the file

> and others look like they have to be assembled.

yes, the rationale to include or ignore media artifacts is not clear to
me: I'd include only sources, publishing artifacts on a dedicated static
web page... or move talks out from maintenance.git to a dedicated git
repo like guix/talks.git (like the existing guix/videos.git), publishing
them to the web

[...]

> From the slides, it looks like GUIX keeps track of dependencies, but 
> there's no discussion about how dependencies are identified, included in 
> the package definitions, or resolved at install time. Details (or 
> pointer) please!

for services:
https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Service-Composition.html

for packages:
https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Defining-Packages.html
(inputs field)

[...]

HTH! Gio'


-- 
Giovanni Biscuolo

Xelera IT Infrastructures

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Re: good overview presentation?

[sirgazil]

---- On Fri, 10 May 2019 02:37:07 -0500 Giovanni Biscuolo <g@xelera.eu> wrote ----

 > Hello Miles, 
 >  
 > Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> writes: 
 >  
 > > Thanks Chris, 
 > > 
 > > A couple of follow-ups: 
 > > 
 > > On 5/9/19 12:39 PM, Christopher Baines wrote: 
 > >> 
 > >> 1: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/maintenance.git/tree/talks 
 > >> 
 > >> There's also two talks [2] which I've given in the past on Guix, they're 
 > >> a few years old, but I think most of the material is still correct. 
 > >> 
 > > Silly me, but how does one view these things?  The ones labeled with 
 > > .pdf extensions come across as ascii files, that can't be read as pdf, 
 >  
 > maintenance.git and its cgit interface is not it's not intended as a 
 > "site substitute", it's an anchive where Guix developers share common 
 > work in the community 
 >  
 > ...anyway, for each media-like file there is a "plain" labelled link 
 > near the blob code, right above the table with hex and ascii code of the 
 > git object: that link will download the file 
 >  
 > > and others look like they have to be assembled. 
 >  
 > yes, the rationale to include or ignore media artifacts is not clear to 
 > me: I'd include only sources, publishing artifacts on a dedicated static 
 > web page... or move talks out from maintenance.git to a dedicated git 
 > repo like guix/talks.git (like the existing guix/videos.git), publishing 
 > them to the web 

Using the topic list in the blog is currently the easiest way to find videos, papers, etc. For example:

    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/

Also, Laura and Paul are working in some introductory videos right now (https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix/videos.git), and there are some ideas already about how to make the multimedia material about Guix more visible (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-12/msg00260.html). This things will be available sooner or later. I haven't found some free time myself to help in that area :)

thanks all - for answers to recent questions

[Miles Fidelman]

thanks all - for answers to recent questions

Miles Fidelman

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown