PowerShell core?

PowerShell core?

[Yasuaki Kudo]

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Hi,

Just curious, is there any interest in making PowerShell core available for Guix?

I have become quite fond of Powershell over the years (I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights - gives poor workers in sorry corners of corporate world [those who are abandoned without adequate tools to get the job done - because Windows is always there and Powershell comes with it!] a huge productivity lift 😄)

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/powershell/powershell-core-6-0-generally-available-ga-and-supported/

Cheers,
Yasu

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Re: PowerShell core?

[Joshua Branson]

Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Just curious, is there any interest in making PowerShell core available for Guix?

I don't know of any talented developers currently pushing to include it
in guix.  :(  (I'm not one of those developers).

>
> I have become quite fond of Powershell over the years (I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights - gives poor workers in sorry corners of
> corporate world [those who are abandoned without adequate tools to get the job done - because Windows is always there and Powershell comes with it!] a
> huge productivity lift 😄)

I will that say since PowerShell is based on .Net, it may be possible to
bring it to guix.  I believe that the mono project for may be a good
start for this, and it is packaged in guix!

https://www.mono-project.com/

>
> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/powershell/powershell-core-6-0-generally-available-ga-and-supported/
>
> Cheers,
> Yasu
>

--
Joshua Branson (joshuaBPMan in #guix)
Sent from Emacs and Gnus
  https://gnucode.me
  https://video.hardlimit.com/accounts/joshua_branson/video-channels
  https://propernaming.org
  "You can have whatever you want, as long as you help
enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar

Re: PowerShell core?

[Bengt Richter]

Hi Yasu,

On +2021-02-02 18:29:25 +0900, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, is there any interest in making PowerShell core available for Guix?
> 
> I have become quite fond of Powershell over the years (I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights - gives poor workers in sorry corners of corporate world [those who are abandoned without adequate tools to get the job done - because Windows is always there and Powershell comes with it!] a huge productivity lift 😄)
> 
> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/powershell/powershell-core-6-0-generally-available-ga-and-supported/
> 
> Cheers,
> Yasu

"Just curious", what do you hope will be the effect of your post?

What functionality in PowerShell provides you with "a huge productivity lift"
that you think is missing in the linux world?

Who do you think is "...abandoned without adequate tools to get the job done..." ?

If the "huge productivity lift" exists, are you proposing an independent implementation,
or a guix package with microsoft-maintained sources as an upstream dependency ;/
(I didn't go to the powershell URL, sorry :)

"I have become quite fond of Powershell over the years ..."
Um, sounds like years of compromise (I don't mean technical, idk Powershell) :-p
(Ok, sometimes a job you need for subsistence (or luxury/addiction) requires compromise, or no job).

"Windows is always there and Powershell comes with it!"

Is that a sales pitch ?? For what?
Caveat emptor!

"I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights..."

Sounds political -- something lost in translation?

Sorry if I totally misread your post.

-- 
Regards,
Bengt Richter

Re: PowerShell core?

[Nicolò Balzarotti]

Bengt Richter <bokr@bokr.com> writes:

> Hi Yasu,
>
> "Just curious", what do you hope will be the effect of your post?
>
Hi Bengt Richter, thanks for asking the same things I had in mind.  This
post seems just M$ propaganda, more than a "Is anybody working on the
inclusion of Powershell?"

From Yasu's mail, when I read:
> I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights

I was really wondering what was happening here.  I mean, we are talking
about a M$ product, right?  I really can't see how this statement can
hold true.  If it means "when I'm _forced_ to work on windows,
powershell is the lest worse thing", then fine.  But I don't get how
having it available in guix would help then.

Howerver, I think that if it's free software (the main page says it's
expat, but I don't know if any nonfree dependency is required), it
qualifies for guix inclusion.  However, on the github page they say
there are analytics enabled by default, so this is not find and the
package should be patched.

My 2¢.

Nicolò

Re: PowerShell core?

[Ryan Prior]

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On February 2, 2021, "Nicolò Balzarotti" <anothersms@gmail.com> wrote:
> This post seems just M$ propaganda, more than a "Is anybody working on
> the
> inclusion of Powershell?"

For what it's worth I didn't read it that way.

I use PowerShell and have spent some time looking into what it would
take to build .NET Core [1] in Guix. It uses expat license [2] & would
unblock lots of useful software, including PowerShell.

There's a developer guide [3] with build instructions. It seems like it
ought to be doable.

If you want to get PowerShell into Guix I support that goal (with any
patches necessary to remove telemetry & any nonfree bits, of course) and
would be happy to provide assistance and encouragement. I think
packaging Core CLR and the .NET Core tools is the first step there.

Cheers,
Ryan

1: https://github.com/dotnet/core
2: https://github.com/dotnet/core/blob/master/LICENSE.TXT
3:
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/Documentation/building/linux-
instructions.md

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Re: PowerShell core?

[Leo Famulari]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 06:35:14PM +0100, Nicolò Balzarotti wrote:
> Bengt Richter <bokr@bokr.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi Yasu,
> >
> > "Just curious", what do you hope will be the effect of your post?
> >
> Hi Bengt Richter, thanks for asking the same things I had in mind.  This
> post seems just M$ propaganda, more than a "Is anybody working on the
> inclusion of Powershell?"
> 
> From Yasu's mail, when I read:
> > I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights
> 
> I was really wondering what was happening here.  I mean, we are talking
> about a M$ product, right?  I really can't see how this statement can
> hold true.  If it means "when I'm _forced_ to work on windows,
> powershell is the lest worse thing", then fine.  But I don't get how
> having it available in guix would help then.

I understand that there may be an atmosphere of suspicion regarding
Microsoft within a GNU project, but we should really try to give a more
charitable interpretation to messages on the Guix mailing lists,
especially if we aren't sure what the sender meant. Remember, Yasu will
read your replies, too.

I don't use Windows regularly, but Powershell seems *really* cool. It's
a very different paradigm than the Unix shell. It seems like it was
designed to solve a lot of the limitations and quirks that plague Unix
shell scripting. It may be that Powershell won't catch on because shell
scripting isn't popular on Windows, but Unix + Powershell sounds
amazing, and I've been interested in it for years.

Re: PowerShell core?

[Nicolò Balzarotti]

Hi, 

Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name> writes:

>> 
>> I was really wondering what was happening here.  I mean, we are talking
>> about a M$ product, right?  I really can't see how this statement can
>> hold true.  If it means "when I'm _forced_ to work on windows,
>> powershell is the lest worse thing", then fine.  But I don't get how
>> having it available in guix would help then.
>
> I understand that there may be an atmosphere of suspicion regarding
> Microsoft within a GNU project, but we should really try to give a
> more charitable interpretation to messages on the Guix mailing lists,
> especially if we aren't sure what the sender meant.

Sure, that's why at the end of the message I replied with what, to my
understanding, are inclusion criteria for guix (and why I said that,
except for analytics, it is probably ok for it to be included).

> Remember, Yasu will read your replies, too.
I hope so, that's the base of communication.  If my message seemed
harsh, I'm really sorry about it.  I was not attacking neither Yasu nor
the software (if powershell is cool, freedom respecting and libre, then
let's add it).  But still, a sane level of suspicion against Microsoft
itself is due.

I just felt it was not ok to talk about "IT worker rights", referring to
a product by a company that is and always has been so hostile with us, a
company that does everything to take away our rights (that's why I asked
clarifications on this point).

I'll be more careful with my wordings,
@Yasu: I'm sorry if you felt attacked or something, my fault

Re: PowerShell core?

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Hi!

Yasuaki Kudo 写道：
> Just curious, is there any interest in making PowerShell core 
> available for Guix?

If you mean interest as in previous efforts to package it, I'm not 
aware of any.

If you mean interest as in ‘would others accept this package in 
Guix’: I don't see why they wouldn't, as long as it adheres to the 
same standards as other Guix software.  Particularly the GNU 
FSDG[0].

One of the touted (old) features[1] is

  “OneGet cmdlets to support the Chocolatey package manager”

which is almost certainly going to be problematic for us. 
However, as long as it's (entirely) Free and doesn't install or 
recommend non-free software (“sorry, that requires Windows(R)”) or 
send users' command history to Microsoft, go for it!

Most such problems can be patched.  If upstream turns out to 
maliciously evade such patches we simply drop it again.

> Windows is always there

Then let's fix that instead of ‘empowering’ its slaves to increase 
productivity.

Still, we don't boycott malicious upstreams (ungoogled-chromium & 
worse) and PowerShell looks like a welcome attempt to pull command 
interpreters out of the 70s.

Due to its (apparent) verbosity it looks better suited to 
scripting than interactive use, but then unix shs suck at both so 
it's still a--

--wait, I just described Scheme.  Hmm.

Get-Help,

T G-R

[0]: 
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html
[1]: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerShell#Windows_PowerShell_3.0

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Re: PowerShell core? off topic praise

[jbranso--- via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.]

This is why I love guix!  Everyone is super respectful.  I know I've 
asked some questionable (newbie) questions before, and everyone always
treated me with dignity!  We've got some kind people here!

Thanks!

February 2, 2021 2:52 PM, "Leo Famulari" <leo@famulari.name> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 06:35:14PM +0100, Nicolò Balzarotti wrote:
> 
>> Bengt Richter <bokr@bokr.com> writes:
>> 
>> Hi Yasu,
>> 
>> "Just curious", what do you hope will be the effect of your post?
>> 
>> Hi Bengt Richter, thanks for asking the same things I had in mind. This
>> post seems just M$ propaganda, more than a "Is anybody working on the
>> inclusion of Powershell?"
>> 
>> From Yasu's mail, when I read:
>> I say Powershell is almost synonymous with IT worker rights
>> 
>> I was really wondering what was happening here. I mean, we are talking
>> about a M$ product, right? I really can't see how this statement can
>> hold true. If it means "when I'm _forced_ to work on windows,
>> powershell is the lest worse thing", then fine. But I don't get how
>> having it available in guix would help then.
> 
> I understand that there may be an atmosphere of suspicion regarding
> Microsoft within a GNU project, but we should really try to give a more
> charitable interpretation to messages on the Guix mailing lists,
> especially if we aren't sure what the sender meant. Remember, Yasu will
> read your replies, too.
> 
> I don't use Windows regularly, but Powershell seems *really* cool. It's
> a very different paradigm than the Unix shell. It seems like it was
> designed to solve a lot of the limitations and quirks that plague Unix
> shell scripting. It may be that Powershell won't catch on because shell
> scripting isn't popular on Windows, but Unix + Powershell sounds
> amazing, and I've been interested in it for years.

Re: PowerShell core?

[Leo Famulari]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 10:41:03PM +0100, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
> Still, we don't boycott malicious upstreams (ungoogled-chromium & worse) and
> PowerShell looks like a welcome attempt to pull command interpreters out of
> the 70s.
> 
> Due to its (apparent) verbosity it looks better suited to scripting than
> interactive use, but then unix shs suck at both so it's still a--
> 
> --wait, I just described Scheme.  Hmm.

Heh :) I had the same thought process!

Re: PowerShell core?

[me--- via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.]

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Leo Famulari 写道：
> I don't use Windows regularly, but Powershell seems *really* 
> cool. It's
> a very different paradigm than the Unix shell. It seems like it 
> was
> designed to solve a lot of the limitations and quirks that 
> plague Unix
> shell scripting. It may be that Powershell won't catch on 
> because shell
> scripting isn't popular on Windows, but Unix + Powershell sounds
> amazing, and I've been interested in it for years.

I hadn't read Leo's reply when I wrote mine or would have simply 
+1'd it.

One can only pat oneself on the back for inventing pipes for so 
many decades.  Let's welcome improvements, not blindly reject them 
simply because we dislike their sponsors.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: PowerShell core?

[zimoun]

Hi,

Well, speaking about an

>                                            attempt to pull command 
> interpreters out of the 70s

ads: <https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/lisprepl/> :-)

(I previewed the talk and it is worth watching!  Even, I previewed all
the talks of the «room» and they are all inspired and inspiring, see you
on Sunday. :-))

Cheers,
simon

Re: PowerShell core?

[Yasuaki Kudo]

Hi everyone!

Thank you all for replying, and especially because you explored many attributes, including my own autography of my sorry existence buried deep inside a bank some years ago, where I became a Powershell and Excel "expert"😅

Ok, so all we need is time (which I don't have much at the moment 😅)

There seems real convergence of Windows and open source now - for one thing, on my Windows 10 laptop, I run Microsoft's built-in Linux and Guix and top of it!  There might come a day when "proprietary software business" is no longer a core thing at Microsoft?  I think they are probably aware of being made irrelevant by Linux on the server side, Chrome on the web, Android and Iphone on smart phones 😅

Cheers,
Yasu


> On Feb 3, 2021, at 03:24, Ryan Prior <ryanprior@hey.com> wrote:
> 
> CLR and the .NET Core tools is the first step there.

Re: PowerShell core?

[Bengt Richter]

Hi,

On +2021-02-03 02:28:26 +0100, zimoun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Well, speaking about an
> 
> >                                            attempt to pull command 
> > interpreters out of the 70s
> 
> ads: <https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/lisprepl/> :-)
> 
> (I previewed the talk and it is worth watching!  Even, I previewed all
> the talks of the «room» and they are all inspired and inspiring, see you
> on Sunday. :-))
> 
> Cheers,
> simon
> 

[1]    https://docs.racket-lang.org/rash/index.html

If you have racket or raco at your command line,
rash is only one or two commands from interaction with you :)

I.e.,
    racket -l rash/repl
and/or to install rash
    raco pkg install rash

A repo is at [2]

[2] https://github.com/willghatch/racket-rash/blob/master/README.md

Seems interesting, though I'm more into wayland innards right now,
so I haven't done anything rash :)

-- 
Regards,
Bengt Richter

Re: PowerShell core?

[Yasuaki Kudo]

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Wow! It does look very interesting, indeed!

One of the reasons why I became so interested in Racket (not just PowerShell😅) is that it installed without a hitch in my corporate Windows.   (I tried to install Haskell as well but it got stuck when it came to using Stack)

It is also interesting that the rash paper on the homepage  http://willghatch.net/publications/rash-gpce-2018-preprint.pdf mentions PowerShell many times. 😄

Empowering the IT workers!  Power to the workers!! 😄

-Yasu


> On Feb 4, 2021, at 03:53, Bengt Richter <bokr@bokr.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On +2021-02-03 02:28:26 +0100, zimoun wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Well, speaking about an
>>>                                          attempt to pull command
>>> interpreters out of the 70s
>> ads: <https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/lisprepl/> :-)
>> (I previewed the talk and it is worth watching!  Even, I previewed all
>> the talks of the «room» and they are all inspired and inspiring, see you
>> on Sunday. :-))
>> Cheers,
>> simon
> 
> [1]    https://docs.racket-lang.org/rash/index.html
> 
> If you have racket or raco at your command line,
> rash is only one or two commands from interaction with you :)
> 
> I.e.,
>   racket -l rash/repl
> and/or to install rash
>   raco pkg install rash
> 
> A repo is at [2]
> 
> [2] https://github.com/willghatch/racket-rash/blob/master/README.md
> 
> Seems interesting, though I'm more into wayland innards right now,
> so I haven't done anything rash :)
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

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