From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id cNFYCrDQxWD+hAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:32:32 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id SI2EBbDQxWBKKQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 09:32:32 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE430103F4 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:32:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33724 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsMTm-0004ji-TL for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:32:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60206) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsMTZ-0004jZ-9j for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:32:17 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:16139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsMTV-0008J8-82 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:32:16 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G2q9G274Mz3wZs; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:32:02 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623576722; bh=wlDHrK6mY8vnZUBmVjVbRGsUXzJqugUJUUSowrPshSA=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=R1Skzu7WN2H94zJyhP2+mftA5woaXAcSKv0lx2UpEoHJEef56QudeU1Te2UoHuCnV l+fB85+WeCYwijCRPTrFFjj0rGm/abk+LfXM1s07k58rKNUZd++Ax/+JXnnb4hGSei KY79Jx6eIlCVGKBOrkGmljc/4HkZXnqCVN0Coxd8= Message-ID: <2e8ede06b4786e4604269b9a7a4a5f04b154040e.camel@student.tugraz.at> Subject: Re: Telemetry on by default kitty From: Leo Prikler To: Bone Baboon Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:32:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <877diy7c7w.fsf@disroot.org> References: <87fsxm7s69.fsf@disroot.org> <87eed695yb.fsf@nckx> <87czsq7oyl.fsf@disroot.org> <87bl8a92r4.fsf@nckx> <83e3ea6de4daa14a81c826d9200941719abe2f82.camel@student.tugraz.at> <877diy7c7w.fsf@disroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=129.27.2.202; envelope-from=leo.prikler@student.tugraz.at; helo=mailrelay.tugraz.at X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623576751; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=wlDHrK6mY8vnZUBmVjVbRGsUXzJqugUJUUSowrPshSA=; b=iuTzR0Nk2/0RVNJzU3rzQXryivKEarWDM9Avuoj3Zu6zws9y8TuGUZOoSCR+fBmsc1Lwcm 5x/8IZgeIodgzrMJQoHwqmBlxLknw92OXjLPbZ+299Rr+tdglclzVpSw6h0Dn50wYAIVJz fBkfqI5W81VOK8n6+AI/XlbVKXAhqXjIfH0kLu26u4Vat/oouil3UPrkJ9eHHIzFBMy5rp JbKpXfFlqSgL9RtMq8g6isguuBFJb4A3lHbCon2sHNfjhe75Z2Y+MpEUUa2/SWmbVHGGG9 vhAfhoYs5u6+dhXumgt1xVO1Q6+uRWvASQlgqaStm506fB0iGAa04iTGd3Wn/g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623576751; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uZfzwQnb9BOHcAc0ixqM1trHwLO30g3KwkfFv78wtuvRa672RL6Yvks8vQhn1+cUqRdhOF UwBDv4+MqArVvIVOI2ZPMcYh0jU9NR9Dl8Yi0q1K9X6ySsdbmPLpMc1quejaZxKxbXwIIY rhG6nrs5G7ON9WllG8pa2Pn+kk9ZDJz2yWmIF9qgaQbzVFCeHZAROYz/nivOjUNZc+0bED bt5a8fDsotIhWfEdU+aZK2fezMHczF2qgsy3qKS51Vdk0StCInFeNze6cN/kRRXYZKATMj kMcnYJzNe1EYeYqKlU8JuGD2s3UyKnmmuzlWS8zSOuel55AaF0En1zJfLa9L4w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=R1Skzu7W; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=R1Skzu7W; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CE430103F4 X-Spam-Score: -1.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: LyoId3tVPlqE Am Samstag, den 12.06.2021, 22:03 -0400 schrieb Bone Baboon: > Leo Prikler writes: > > Am Samstag, den 12.06.2021, 23:44 +0200 schrieb Tobias Geerinckx- > > Rice: > > > Bone Baboon 写道： > > > > Should the patch be to remove the kitty package? > > > > > > No. The telemetry. > > While I appreciate the invitation to write a patch for kitty's > telemetry > I am not going to write that patch. My rational is explained below. > > > If I read terminals.scm, we already disable the telemetry in kitty: > > > > > (invoke "python3" "setup.py" "linux-package" > > > ;; Do not phone home. > > > "--update-check-interval=0" > > > > @Bone: Did you notice any other telemetry during your further code > > review (or are you still in the process of reviewing the code)? If > > not, please try to cross-check Guix sources to see whether we > > already > > disable telemetry, so as to not cause unwarranted panic :) > > It appears problematic to patch kitty's telemetry for several > reasons. > > kitt's lead developer did not explaining kitty's telemetry when asked > for further information. It is not clear if kitty performs other > kinds > of telemetry as well. It would seem that the only way to make sure > that > all undesirable telemetry is removed would be a full review of > kitty's > source code. > > kitty's lead developer thinks that the telemetry in kitty is > acceptable. So there would need to be an ongoing review of commits > to > the kitty source code to ensure that undesirable telemetry is not > added > in the future. > > I have never been a kitty user and seeing the position kitty's lead > developer holds on telemetry I will not be a kitty user in the > future. > I will not be reviewing the kitty source code or future commits to > the > kitty source code. Are we reading the same issue? As I understand it, there is the ethical problem of kitty's telemetry being *enabled* by default rather than *disabled*, but both parties seem to agree on how to disable it (completely). Of course, there's the added bonus of the lead developer expressing their views in a… rather aggressive tone to put it mildly, but that's a social problem. As far as I can see, neither of those pose any technical problem to disabling telemetry in Guix, which as far as I can see, we do. It is important to raise social and ethical issues, but I'm not sure whether guix-devel is the right platform for that (in that change will be achieved through discussion here). Regards, Leo