From: MSavoritias <email@msavoritias.me>
To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>
Cc: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6a@rdmp.org>,
Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv>,
guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: About SWH, let avoid the wrong discussion
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 12:12:13 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20240621121213.419da774@fannys.me> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87msnebsfd.fsf@gmail.com>
On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:39:50 +0200
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
Just wanted to send a quick reply that as I have mentioned elsewhere I do not wish to see SWH go. I think they are doing great work.
and as I mention in my first email I want to apply social pressure and make it clear to package authors what is happening so we can move to an opt-in model.
It was never my intent to make it seem like we need to burn all bridges with SWH. I do think they have done mistakes but that is not a reason to break apart.
We definetily need something like SWH and I do hope to see them come around to a consentual model.
MSavoritias
> Hi all,
>
> For the record, the Software Heritage initiative is supportive of the
> Guix project since years.
>
> It means that members of Guix community have or had interactions with
> Software Heritage (SWH) teams since years. For example, the blog post
> “Connecting reproducible deployment to a long-term source code archive”
> [1] published in 2019. And more recently, the scientific communication
> “Source Code Archiving to the Rescue of Reproducible Deployment” [2].
>
> Almost 6 years of friendly interactions and shared values.
>
> Could we avoid to express definitive opinions based on partial
> considerations about multi-dimensional topics?
>
> Since years, several members of Guix community are helped in one way or
> the other by SWH team members in improving free software ecosystem.
>
> Well, I speak for myself: I have been invited to several events
> organized by SWH and it’s up to you to trust me when I say: SWH team
> works very hard to embrace all the diversity of FOSS communities. For
> example, I recently attended to a talk organized by SWH about Commons;
> that talk had been a very good food for thought and maybe it could feed
> our current discussion about governance/sociocracy via comments here or
> there I could commit, I do not know, maybe.
>
> Well, I am very grateful for the opportunity to interact with SWH teams.
>
> For the record, SWH provided various supports for the organization of 10
> Years of Guix, back in 2022. Please remember that SWH team members were
> there and some stayed all the three days; probably because we are a nice
> community? All the video stream and good videos of the 10 Years of Guix
> event you probably watched or maybe watch again is because the tireless
> work of multi-hats person (Debian Developer, Debian Video Team, … and
> working at SWH) helped by Guix community members.
>
> Please check the Copyright header for the subcommand “guix locate”.
> Yes, it had been partly written by one SWH team member because, yes they
> run Guix. Yes, their day-job is at SWH and they are also part of our
> Guix community by contributing to Guix source code.
>
> Now, you take it as it is: I am sad by what people are concluding!
>
> Yes I understand why people are angry. Yes discussions must happen.
>
> However, I was expecting more benefit of the doubt considering history
> and track record. Hum, even, maybe, I am asking myself if Guix
> community is indeed nice or if this time the community is just harsh and
> unfair.
>
> Do we forget the track record and the common history?
>
> Then, for what my opinion is worth, fighting against SWH while thinking
> it’s fighting against LLM/AI is the wrong fight. Because 1. we are all
> in the team. And 2. because SWH could be a facilitator for helping in
> some regulations, maybe, I do not know. Somehow, I agree with Ekaitz.
>
> You take it as it is: I was expecting more humility by Guix community
> members. Do you really think that a collective of people involved in
> various FOSS communities with different roles, dedicating their free
> time to free software or open source movements, do you think they are
> the bad actors here?
>
> My humility tells me, as I expressed several times, nothing is ignored.
>
> Yes I also got the point about the lack of transparency. As I said
> above, FWIW, I am in touch with SWH team. Well, I do not have special
> information from SWH and I trust them to have listened or are still
> listening various communities. So my understanding is: work is in
> progress… Somehow, wait and see.
>
> Yes I know we cannot wait forever. Again, do we forget the track record
> and the common history? Do we consider that a multi-layers topic
> involving legal or ethics questions is straightforward to articulate?
>
> My humility tells me to wait to have clear and better understanding
> about SWH motivations, their rationale, the measures and
> counter-measures they maybe have in mind. Be patient and tolerant as I
> am with my friends.
>
> Long enough email and thread. That’s all from me! :-)
>
> My last message. Not because I am bored but because one week of
> holidays is starting now for me. ;-)
>
> 1: https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
> 2: https://hal.science/hal-04586520v1
>
> Cheers,
> simon
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-06-21 9:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-06-18 8:37 Next Steps For the Software Heritage Problem MSavoritias
2024-06-18 14:19 ` Ian Eure
2024-06-19 8:36 ` Dale Mellor
2024-06-20 17:00 ` Andreas Enge
2024-06-20 18:42 ` Dale Mellor
2024-06-20 20:54 ` Andreas Enge
2024-06-20 20:59 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2024-06-20 21:12 ` Andreas Enge
2024-06-21 8:41 ` Dale Mellor
2024-06-21 9:19 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-21 13:33 ` Luis Felipe
2024-06-21 17:51 ` Exclude checker with package properties [draft PATCH] Simon Tournier
2024-06-21 18:37 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2024-06-21 18:44 ` Simon Tournier
2024-06-21 18:42 ` Simon Tournier
2024-06-22 15:54 ` Draft: dry-run + Exclude checker with package properties Simon Tournier
2024-06-20 21:27 ` Next Steps For the Software Heritage Problem Simon Tournier
2024-06-18 16:21 ` Greg Hogan
2024-06-18 16:33 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-18 17:31 ` Greg Hogan
2024-06-18 17:57 ` Ian Eure
2024-06-19 7:01 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-19 9:57 ` Efraim Flashner
2024-06-20 2:56 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2024-06-20 5:18 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-19 10:10 ` Efraim Flashner
2024-06-21 8:39 ` About SWH, let avoid the wrong discussion Simon Tournier
2024-06-21 9:12 ` MSavoritias [this message]
2024-06-21 9:46 ` Andreas Enge
2024-06-21 10:44 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-21 13:45 ` Luis Felipe
2024-06-21 14:15 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-21 16:33 ` Luis Felipe
2024-06-21 17:04 ` Msavoritias
2024-06-21 16:34 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2024-06-21 16:51 ` Vagrant Cascadian
2024-06-21 17:22 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-21 20:51 ` Vagrant Cascadian
2024-06-22 15:46 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-22 17:55 ` Breath, let take a short break :-) Simon Tournier
2024-06-24 7:30 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-24 10:23 ` Tomas Volf
2024-06-24 11:56 ` Lets cut this off Efraim Flashner
2024-06-21 17:25 ` About SWH, let avoid the wrong discussion Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2024-06-22 13:06 ` Richard Sent
2024-06-22 14:42 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-22 19:53 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2024-06-24 7:55 ` MSavoritias
2024-06-24 9:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus
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