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Wed, 19 Jun 2024 03:02:03 -0400 Received: from mail.webarch.email ([81.95.52.48]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sJpKT-0005Wt-O7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 03:02:03 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 7A4531A88796; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:01:50 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=msavoritias.me; s=20210930; t=1718780517; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references; bh=NBSbfCSFnlykpeD5t6gZfaYPQm1IVyMFlV9Zk6hvj1o=; b=qjEcqdzoKeNaodZqdf/3b7bDxjBGDzqPpLaHsTVtupXS/8aDsxrJ9N6ADTVLNYS9nzn5M9 Hf6ovmmb5FkVKlFQYp2Wvr0yHT9cCNo7glWb/U9cE4YW8uSPuX8kuLGdla/cIo7qAkaXP4 84uEzJ6fOREL8a/oSJ95tM849ZZ7rMHEIiYtlQWRvT6xFxtoPWflS00ezA0ugjs173EUHw HwB5rYAyhhaTl1SqSqbDpUsM3s7tVhwUMZC0AiCUC2QzvvV7ajAn8FU2WGCcBqy5tg8psU /snL7qdb5fGloBM6khHDlAoI+jmEiQ+khU3X4uJ6uguH3jx+6Q8fGE7vl4oQLQ== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 10:01:43 +0300 From: MSavoritias To: Greg Hogan Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Next Steps For the Software Heritage Problem Message-ID: <20240619100143.03be0c0b@fannys.me> In-Reply-To: References: <20240618113717.4a6bad2b@fannys.me> <20240618193328.14f05913@fannys.me> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.1.1 (GTK 3.24.41; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 893E66115F X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.26 X-Spam-Score: -6.26 X-TUID: dKg+d168fh1p On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 13:31:02 -0400 Greg Hogan wrote: > On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 12:33=E2=80=AFPM MSavoritias > wrote: > > > > Ah it seems I wasn't clear enough. > > I meant write something like: > > > > By packaging a software project for Guix you are exposing said > > software to a code harvesting project (also known as LLMs or "AI") > > run by Software Heritage and/or their partners. Make sure you have > > gotten fully informed consent and that the author of this package > > fully understands what the implications are. > > > > Something like that. To make it clear that the package that is > > about to be added to Guix is going to be harvested for the LLM > > models Software Heritage decided to share the code with. > > > > Hope this is more clear. =20 >=20 > Free software licenses do not require bespoke consent to "to run the > program, to study and change the program in source code form, to > redistribute exact copies, and to distribute modified versions" (and > "Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do > not have to ask or pay for permission to do so."). >=20 > Your fear mongering against free software runs afoul of Guix project > guidelines ("In addition, the GNU distribution follow [sic] the free > software distribution guidelines. Among other things, these guidelines > reject non-free firmware, recommendations of non-free software, and > discuss ways to deal with trademarks and patents."). >=20 > If you feel that LLMs/AI are violating the terms of a license, then > feel free to pursue that through the legal system (potentially very > profitable given the monetary penalties for violations of copyright). > Otherwise, we should be celebrating the users and use of free > software. I'm old enough to remember "Only wimps use tape backup: > _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest > of the world mirror it ;)" > [https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9607.2/0292.html]. Hey Greg, You seem to be arguing on a different thread or a point I never made. I didn't talk about licenses or legal/state rules before you mentioned them. What I have mentioned is that SH breaks our social rules and expectations by feeding all code into an algorithm that will endlessly output the same as original. I am not interested what the states or licenses/copyrights allow or don't allow in this case. What I care about is what we expect as a community when we submit a package/code to guix and if that violates our social rules and expectations. And from what I have seen and talked with people it does indeed. PS. I am also not a man :P Regards, MSavoritias