From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4Ii/MUOiXWORuAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:59:31 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id IdLXMUOiXWPSHAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:59:31 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DF422B9CF for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:59:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ootr5-0006I5-6y; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 17:59:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ootr3-0006Hq-El for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 17:59:01 -0400 Received: from koszko.org ([93.95.227.159]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ootr1-0000ze-65 for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 17:59:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=koszko.org; s=mail; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7a9PCAiWsp2tt7uKMTPr5R3d0pMjZtRHavcyjNcc7I0=; b=RIfIFIEzxH5vGvSfdjjvzgRqhO lR6uR3O0chYPMJNzz76IadcwOlfA0A4udADTR7ECyaUg/DzMSsBCBKHm2oBKqNd9+IyPrY1r7qwGv DyBCfd1EsS36E/ySav2iTwVjn/E/B+qJ8g1zQMrtAXX41X2jpNNqLAY2Wf0yI0NIVRtxqol2Ry+hw H/wtfMBVLKiPFygoLUZawhHaE2FVlU6esS0WW10qxOn2Z11Ww5CCjGx2OCAqG7vPSs/Q5qg310jfT 1bqTAua6rd82DKKNmFJHfkC+TigzEHuEMw/r+vNz9qI09pIdvmF38pAjqINwA/MoeZMa1g9+Cne67 0hmlHZCZ4K2CHtUgsXMHSxvdAIbcbiN/jUTV2f1iyhr9lEJNdqvWxXq4ckSOa/a+rW/1EDHCoqNoc RSCkpGNQHzSczaJl93IY8vhnuztnsDaOrtlzl/X2s6OGpqhuNe0Maq8qilUSj/LziNRWhK/jXUfN9 llpHHgpX9Qhe1x0A2XBlM6pi5DroxVUeiU0hniz2JIbQytrydnx0H8KdtM2JWu8PgOq7fN60bCODW HWJWa8ATH29o5d1H27Qf4i/wkUCno83WsFpkzMehV+47LuBLhPmngw1SXN7aka28wB10sNSVTRW9J 4vKJcNIhT6YyZL05VAQCkaJF+BXXvKDLDNVQAGH1w=; Received: from 77-252-46-225.static.ip.netia.com.pl ([77.252.46.225] helo=koszkonutek-tmp.pl.eu.org) by koszko.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ootqr-0006Qx-1k; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:58:49 +0200 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:58:46 +0200 To: Christian Gelinek Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: Package renpy broken? Message-ID: <20221029235846.280db078@koszkonutek-tmp.pl.eu.org> In-Reply-To: <7128f34e-aa48-9afb-59af-e4f69a600c86@mailbox.org> References: <1b808a95-2a93-b3d1-00a5-4cf458d718c6@mailbox.org> <20221028172912.6806f9e2@koszkonutek-tmp.pl.eu.org> <7128f34e-aa48-9afb-59af-e4f69a600c86@mailbox.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/nMWGhldEGjqTk=F/s5.4ubh"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=93.95.227.159; envelope-from=koszko@koszko.org; helo=koszko.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: "Help-Guix" Reply-to: Wojtek Kosior From: Wojtek Kosior via Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1667080771; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7a9PCAiWsp2tt7uKMTPr5R3d0pMjZtRHavcyjNcc7I0=; b=m7+0gK19xlj8UMtekqruXT2zunLI99aX6oJbC9fiNhqUbr3b7cPWENn7wWzzrov0LE5P0e xney6uXuWybh98HX3XPTGZZ7bOc3DQ2spv1ioaD6W1xvr4I35lihd8qZJtvjWYICiXIPRl /ah4HcVVTtxQeNnBZahuXzXQwBLaxWlG7r2mIE+pK+rqnFZJrGrpWvvTob2VtWpsB1mB/H 8EOBpzo1M4ZzZHT1PCJ2Spd6Yh+dBsb5yr03FzMWl7Pny+SYUm2FDSDpSpXb75U6tX7zh3 60qsTnYaKGw6mtmnaQATvmNnTuPZgljC9K1Haa82QZIrkclOvGBzsC5U/dxyWg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1667080771; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IesXnw7RX8fvPxreGXtva+2AB5WnL1MxoOti13XX/Xfj6RZpd8Umb9ORt1ineCYi+EX6oN Uw56EhmsCTenggOd1ilATJnD310wJ4DxYAOnHiqZLNirQEtF9qWiBlJhugREFl81h9SFAw xpIHnsmCB+8d3KafMFvRgXMeRe5RU86FIHnFarf/sOMCF1qn01UFAXQuU+jSB5G82E/ZQZ SFQtNiEdPESNArV5TeSkoWD82GDTdd1/qlFRHPM7ZNByIzug1f3TvIy9hIYaMWuiEFyYdU +/XmotLrdaeqP6Y/QOq0G+yO3zWQWDbUhpWucMhGQfn2wiIN9JkVg6gNPvWyZg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=koszko.org header.s=mail header.b=RIfIFIEz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=koszko.org header.s=mail header.b=RIfIFIEz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4DF422B9CF X-Spam-Score: -4.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: QecCF30LgoLQ --Sig_/nMWGhldEGjqTk=F/s5.4ubh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Hi Wojtek, thanks for your response and the useful links to learn how to= =20 > patch a package. No problem :) I have no doubt you would reach all the information anyway if you have just a bit of determination > [...] I do wonder about other users of Ren'Py - particularly whoever > packaged it first, did they ever get it working for them? > > [...] > > I do like packages which *just work* out of the box, and I feel the > declarative approach should generally help with that. I have the same feeling. I know of at least two things that might be causing packages to break for end users even though they worked for packagers. Firstly, some dependency of the package might get updated and might be causing problems. If this is the case, it might be useful to check the Guix commit at which the desired package was initially added and use `guix time-machine` to install the package with the exact dependency versions it had back then... This is of course yet another workaround and it'd be better to have the real problem fixed (if one has time for that). The other reason might be that the program behavior depends on some files in user's home directory. Perhaps it worked for someone who for example happened to have certain local configuration put in place by another, non-Guix installation of the same program? > I do have the concern that this "geekiness" can also lead to a pile > of patches on top of each other (in this case, the patch to remove > TFD and then another to make the package work again without it) that > I feel would increase the maintenance burden rather than decreasing > it beyond the short term. Please tell me if what I said doesn't match > the deeper philosophy behind Guix for some reason or another. I see this patch-on-patch stuff as personal quick hacks just to get things working locally. As such, they won't harm the upstream Guix. As to the maintenance burden of personal patches of one's self... well, to me it still seems drastically smaller that in other distros I've been using :) > Looking at my Ren'Py issue, I am wondering whether the cleaner > approach would be to package TFD as a separate package (I think zlib > counts as a Free Software license) and make it a dependency of > Ren'Py, hoping that will fix the issue. > > [...] >=20 > What are your thoughts? It would surely be cleaner. I just expect the "missing sources" issue supposedly found by the previous packager might be something non-obvious and harder to fix than it seems :/ But who knows? > Maybe other packages like rust-tinyfiledialogs could benefit from > such a package as well (I am wondering how users of that are > currently actually using TFD). Maybe it had TFD sources bundled with itself? Wojtek -- (sig_start) website: https://koszko.org/koszko.html PGP: https://koszko.org/key.gpg fingerprint: E972 7060 E3C5 637C 8A4F 4B42 4BC5 221C 5A79 FD1A Meet Krak=C3=B3w saints! #47: saint Stanis=C5=82aw ze Szczepanowa Poznaj =C5=9Bwi=C4=99tych krakowskich! #47: =C5=9Bwi=C4=99ty Stanis=C5=82a= w ze Szczepanowa https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis=C5=82aw_ze_Szczepanowa -- (sig_end) On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 09:42:19 +0000 Christian Gelinek wrote: > Hi Wojtek, thanks for your response and the useful links to learn how to= =20 > patch a package. >=20 > > Once you grasp a bit of it, you should be able to define your own > > variant of the Ren'Py package. One without the bug. =20 >=20 > That would probably be the easiest fix, but I do wonder about other=20 > users of Ren'Py - particularly whoever packaged it first, did they ever=20 > get it working for them? >=20 > > I realize it's probably a bit discouraging to come to a new distro and > > find out you need to learn packaging to utilize it. =20 >=20 > I guess switching distros is always going to cause some friction, so I=20 > was partly prepared for that. >=20 > > Yet, honestly, Guix is a geeky package manager - you can only benefit f= rom its > > super-powers once you're yourself Guix geek =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF= =20 >=20 > You're right in that, and it also seems to have some really compelling=20 > features that motivated me to switch and which (hopefully) make this=20 > learning experience worthwhile. On the other hand, I do like packages=20 > which *just work* out of the box, and I feel the declarative approach=20 > should generally help with that. As a newcomer I do have the concern=20 > that this "geekiness" can also lead to a pile of patches on top of each=20 > other (in this case, the patch to remove TFD and then another to make=20 > the package work again without it) that I feel would increase the=20 > maintenance burden rather than decreasing it beyond the short term.=20 > Please tell me if what I said doesn't match the deeper philosophy behind= =20 > Guix for some reason or another. >=20 > Looking at my Ren'Py issue, I am wondering whether the cleaner approach=20 > would be to package TFD as a separate package (I think zlib counts as a=20 > Free Software license) and make it a dependency of Ren'Py, hoping that=20 > will fix the issue. Maybe other packages like rust-tinyfiledialogs=20 > could benefit from such a package as well (I am wondering how users of=20 > that are currently actually using TFD). >=20 > What are your thoughts? >=20 > Christian --Sig_/nMWGhldEGjqTk=F/s5.4ubh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQTpcnBg48VjfIpPS0JLxSIcWnn9GgUCY12iFgAKCRBLxSIcWnn9 GsKfAP0dGcsadI9l4+n7k0dtscnZiid2kuvS5l00OFquSyniiwD8CqntCxGrxFzZ vfc5Bttqq56x3MAuFpL7nHsUBVXVbwE= =kJwB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/nMWGhldEGjqTk=F/s5.4ubh--