From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id +F7pMo0+1GJjzwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:53:33 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id wE99MY0+1GK9IQAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:53:33 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 957CB46049 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:53:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56944 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oD7WO-00005N-Or for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:53:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35914) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oD7Vb-0008Uo-Pb for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:52:44 -0400 Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([64.68.200.34]:42268) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oD7VZ-0000dv-6H for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:52:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1D762874; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:52:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bokr.com; s=easymail; t=1658076757; bh=2pIse2m8mRT6RhpQriR5+mg/FCJkU7qlQ3O4tjWuWmw=; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=KumWtBCKf9XBXP0F/9V72RcGFjJxijAU41jiSrDWLscc/eI5DcCZMxWF/noL/YGzk BxZkFLWQO+JBQoIb0e7zljYmjVn0N5t5RbtBcDqp18kuJNvE470KwCvLzJSZPr0I6O +dQRLtL43kFHWu4CCjWjQRWv4h0C1cj/vTFkv5r7OfQgLMytFdqgc9ZFA3lbEdK9mM 3y0XB8WeeZB9Sd3m8NcaeXS/PykJXObivXVIgNIi6eA568JvYXquctJSlMkKb+sEmB iq5yivhYqs0p/NHhea3rqlftAjDVoGyd01cDzeJ2ycHnbVt+BGSUa2wizgW5cxBLyf FSTK4wHkMguxQ== X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo07-pco.easydns.vpn Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo07-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MmSvKp0CyQKQ; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:52:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (m90-129-196-20.cust.tele2.se [90.129.196.20]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA6FC62852; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:52:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bokr.com; s=easymail; t=1658076757; bh=2pIse2m8mRT6RhpQriR5+mg/FCJkU7qlQ3O4tjWuWmw=; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=KumWtBCKf9XBXP0F/9V72RcGFjJxijAU41jiSrDWLscc/eI5DcCZMxWF/noL/YGzk BxZkFLWQO+JBQoIb0e7zljYmjVn0N5t5RbtBcDqp18kuJNvE470KwCvLzJSZPr0I6O +dQRLtL43kFHWu4CCjWjQRWv4h0C1cj/vTFkv5r7OfQgLMytFdqgc9ZFA3lbEdK9mM 3y0XB8WeeZB9Sd3m8NcaeXS/PykJXObivXVIgNIi6eA568JvYXquctJSlMkKb+sEmB iq5yivhYqs0p/NHhea3rqlftAjDVoGyd01cDzeJ2ycHnbVt+BGSUa2wizgW5cxBLyf FSTK4wHkMguxQ== From: bokr@bokr.com Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:52:19 +0200 To: Josselin Poiret Cc: Zhu Zihao , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Building, packaging and updating Guix with confidence Message-ID: <20220717165219.GA19816@LionPure> References: <87let6roxo.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> <867d4pjedm.fsf@163.com> <87h73trnyu.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h73trnyu.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.68.200.34; envelope-from=bokr@bokr.com; helo=mailout.easymail.ca X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1658076813; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=tOKJrI1a7nZT2aQB7xKtlh3Z+Faypox0m0GnwCmuEHI=; b=iG5eO12wCb24ux93cHnXoTYF9MIYH/qYPD/QUykL3MGSGwoxCabznAyhotmJuyAn15OEi+ 8k759Rt+cJl2SBQz2UUVEMneAswXxMzgmUt6waF+fPHAkV4OzGXygm6kZTO7niZ4275W8z tdd03rOLoTj8iTMoS/rSgeTQX/PwN3s7lz5i37bsDqKgN+UDiQR3vrbou26O7LCCdINprI Pbkj/wsJBSt05vSz3EOU51SGfdSwgtJ25mdbFoGunoSj/zuP2io4XzRckonxG/BlNt7STW dT8vEmVmxNBTTD0Y8fcRmWZGHIjdLTqSf1HTqZBoGXMU8jORasD9FM40J5zXXw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1658076813; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kHBZXoRk2QBLGpWlEOxR0vSxILT4P2PB76X4V/rOP2iPJHonOJV/VqxxMT4BD8K+kmEWDV aY7ekRvnkokkoubSP4Rrr2PVEIQ6LX8M2agaP2d0BN0vYYp+1eOaERo74ArEGxkB50pggF 5fXGffa1UG0Gfn6JPRtHIXEmpSDfMt8Sw9upsWpQ/s4VTmmdoSM3tSuaqFECHiuzsbeMC9 fxCfDVzDAeWMNOCm/Gv/6Q2h0UehqeVn+A8eXMo4yNwue+Q4ar7whns7PbUHa44iYrEoPV 1nBXsAeYo1j+QtVicsGmh16ZPYrNdFzyKxtFptx7sQ62Wz+r5DhDFQsyo9YgDw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bokr.com header.s=easymail header.b=KumWtBCK; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bokr.com header.s=easymail header.b=KumWtBCK; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 3.07 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bokr.com header.s=easymail header.b=KumWtBCK; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=bokr.com header.s=easymail header.b=KumWtBCK; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 957CB46049 X-Spam-Score: 3.07 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: cOI4ZSbM5re/ Hi Josselin, I have some naive questions below :) On +2022-07-07 16:34:17 +0200, Josselin Poiret wrote: > Hello, > > Zhu Zihao writes: > > > If your foreign function use case is very trivial? Why not give Guile > > dynamic FFI a try? > > That could be another option, but I'd like to have autoconf be able to > detect whether the target supports things like posix_spawn and > getrlimit, which I use in the code. > > > It's possible to use guix channel to test a local guix repo. A short > > example here. > > Right, but for the example of adding extensions it won't work since > there's a part of `guix pull` that uses the guix package, as well as in > the installer or system-wide Guix, as I outlined before. The issue [1] > I outlined in the opening mail was an issue that is specific to the guix > package method, so there really isn't a way to uniformly test changes > without knowing the intricacies of the different builds and where they > end up (I do know these, having run into these issues myself before). > > > This is somewhat "the bootstrap problem". It's very ideal if we can > > describe the build graph in Guix with derivations. But we still need a > > daemon first to process derivations. So we need to build daemon without > > Guix. > > I don't think that's the case, (guix self) relies on a working daemon > connection before anything else, the built daemon will just be a part of > the resulting `guix pull` profile, but won't be used to build the new > Guix (as a matter of fact, the build daemon is built... using the build > daemon!). > > > This issue may be solved by rewriting daemon in Guile. If daemon is > > written in Guile. We can run it without compilation. > > I don't think this is directly related, although some changes that we > could bring to it would definitely ease what I'm proposing here: having > a way to build things directly without relying on a root-owned daemon > running would make the bootstrapping problem easier to solve. > > Best, > -- > Josselin Poiret > Naively: Why does "the" guix daemon per se need root access at all? Why not let it be an ordinary peer user? The main one already is, UIAM. Why couldn't it protect /gnu/ storage as a user which the kernel can keep others from writing to in the usual way? Another option for managing storage and quickly switching access might be if you trust the wayland daemons and their protocol for managing a single user thread's buffers. You might be able to use its event loop to schedule multiplexed concurrent build jobs. A peer user daemon scenario might also open possibilities for networked job distribution beyond a local router's connections, I imagine? -- Regards, Bengt Richter