From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id aC9NDCEnNGJnnAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:30:57 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2KqWBCEnNGI/HgEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:30:57 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B42DE12366 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:30:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36272 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV68V-0006e1-N7 for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 02:30:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58746) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV65a-0006b1-56 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 02:27:54 -0400 Received: from mail.thebird.nl ([94.142.245.5]:41208) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nV65W-0002tc-Vu for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 02:27:52 -0400 Received: by mail.thebird.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A5CD61979; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:27:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:27:45 +0100 From: Pjotr Prins To: Katherine Cox-Buday Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works Message-ID: <20220318062745.ducadhbbc55qlgid@thebird.nl> References: <20220314202659.oftyvymu7tjiycba@thebird.nl> <87v8wcs5vh.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87v8wcs5vh.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=94.142.245.5; envelope-from=pjotr2022@thebird.nl; helo=mail.thebird.nl X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647585056; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=tfSxsJhNKtVQCSZaFbBXl3OmQKxXEF2OHxd7DOT4Y8Y=; b=KSDipmjpSsEEP8KDB9rGCAsBd5sFTt0UenfbkBCr8DwBnloXjemVaY/OKZHEchff6IKiAi 5YyDBEl+HYfkLhmzJvLruvsEZmG5jL7m/a09Z/b0Jr37z1U55DKZDuDNGkHuQBOTU9E7SI mk5ZLyx0U7uK4Q/b2ItasampPyUZHw93lTd2BKWz8Q8w9kbeBblYQUWtYP4qpubpmy9QMo 81jBHo7zXhM2tmAyH/++fxOGUKDAXXaS8wHKRh9fvvtSCySi41gT9C+AvaJyueFvQF3PeQ sg50596nQL8jFWhkosYxxk8/R73OKL1QgA0G9ZvXsDlvJytIctObm/7qq8JPug== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647585056; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=M1YMBOXX1rWQunaaOI26TeEY1ecthk98LXecC+0UqoEiOFdMaucHjPx3Ut2Th2QZE/qesT r/j3X3QK0aWzfy7CvQRAoeuYaTBftjvhJ4KKAnNlMFz+/PGkGlIMnuxvn8f/GYBcPYNzhZ G38n8uqKqF3Y5r22cZ0Is2180MtTgbh75fRO3Yu/ewu6ltTuIzEcGr9vENSeAI91zcPgYA PMlBCQQ9OHwj8TpgOqc/yqcSEvFq11GDwIx+pj3ZvQA6TRA0ysQjSS5i3sgL4gp+sePjQJ fmJK0tCk+3UGKB7RpKm8ac8GX1b7mYXXKm3O+mW10BR2nasGl3yyRwS7m8biZQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.94 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B42DE12366 X-Spam-Score: -2.94 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 8smIG6SVgSxA On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 03:04:18PM -0500, Katherine Cox-Buday wrote: > In addition, because free software is largely developed in people's spare time, they're going to use whatever tools make them most productive or even just happy. They're probably not thinking about their software against the backdrop of the larger software ecosystem. Agree. Though I would not underestimate these people involved in creating such ecosystems. Often they are not even on Linux. When the Dlang people created dub I pointed them to Guix. Obviously I failed to convince them. > Guix solves a lot of issues, and is wonderful to use, but I don't think it solves the most difficult issues: human issues :) It is a complex world out there if you look at the mix of operating systems and compilers/interpreters. From my point of view GNU Guix greatly simplies development and deployment - targeting Linux - at the cost of some up-front investment. It is nice when people realise that so much complexity goes away living in a Guix world. Pj.