Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Hello guix!

Trying to contribute to the French translation for guix-manual, I encounter some problems.

Everything I tried to translate was mostly done under Guix System with Gtranslator. A little bit with poedit too, but... when I go under debian (dual-boot), I find that translations done under Guix System are apparently not seen, for example :

With Guix System : $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po
                   8471 messages traduits, 813 traductions approximatives, 602 messages non traduits.
                   
With debian :      $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po 
                   8459 messages traduits, 825 traductions approximatives, 602 messages non traduits.
                   
Du coup, I don't know if the 12 translated messages and the 12 approximate translations set have been taken into account or not. But I think not... From time to time, I have the impression to redo some translations/modifications.

The first time I tried poedit under Guix System, I thought I saw a stealthy message like "translation error" or something like that. The following times, this message didn't appear anymore.

Could it be a localization problem? In order to test, I created /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES which currently contains en_en.msg, messages.mo, my_file.po and test.mo (These files come from gtranslator and poedit, in which I have previously entered the path to /LC_MESSAGES.

Then I searched in the Guix System tree if I could find a location corresponding to the locales, but I couldn't find anything like that.

Otherwise, I encountered a setback due to my inexperience with the
translator roster. I hadn't gone through the whole procedure and only
yesterday I received the approval from the FSF: "Hubert Lombard has
been successfully subscribed to the Translators mailing list", (my
registration details having remained cached for about 2 or 3 weeks, the
validation worked). It was the robot that asked me to satisfy this
requirement. But I was a bit lost because I know that Guix does not
require copyright. So I sent a mail to the french translation team
manager and he answered me asking me details about guix, guix-packages
and guix-manual. I answered him that I was only working on guix-manual,
the translator of the other 2 being already assigned to them.

His réponse : "Ok, I will register you without reservation"

Today I tried again to send the .po file on which I made some progress, but it was rejected: "According to my notes, Hubert Lombard is not a member of the French team."

Well, I think it's just a matter of time ;-) No other errors were mentioned. There is a message that informs me about what still needs to be translated, but it doesn't look like an injunction, just an information > 8534 translated messages, 750 fuzzy translations, 602 untranslated messages.

I'm a bit nervous, knowing that 1.2.0 is about to be released, I was wondering if I would have time to send my version before the deadline. I'm currently at over 86%.

If you have any comments, please let me know.

Wishing you a good evening,

Friendly,

-- 
Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Julien Lepiller]

Do you want to send me the file? I'll submit it for you if you can't do it yet. We still have a bit of time ahead of us, as the release is planned for the beginning of November.

Le 26 octobre 2020 15:07:50 GMT-04:00, Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :
>Hello guix!
>
>Trying to contribute to the French translation for guix-manual, I
>encounter some problems.
>
>Everything I tried to translate was mostly done under Guix System with
>Gtranslator. A little bit with poedit too, but... when I go under
>debian (dual-boot), I find that translations done under Guix System are
>apparently not seen, for example :
>
>With Guix System : $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po
>8471 messages traduits, 813 traductions approximatives, 602 messages
>non traduits.
>                   
>With debian :      $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po 
>8459 messages traduits, 825 traductions approximatives, 602 messages
>non traduits.
>                   
>Du coup, I don't know if the 12 translated messages and the 12
>approximate translations set have been taken into account or not. But I
>think not... From time to time, I have the impression to redo some
>translations/modifications.
>
>The first time I tried poedit under Guix System, I thought I saw a
>stealthy message like "translation error" or something like that. The
>following times, this message didn't appear anymore.
>
>Could it be a localization problem? In order to test, I created
>/usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES which currently contains en_en.msg,
>messages.mo, my_file.po and test.mo (These files come from gtranslator
>and poedit, in which I have previously entered the path to
>/LC_MESSAGES.
>
>Then I searched in the Guix System tree if I could find a location
>corresponding to the locales, but I couldn't find anything like that.
>
>Otherwise, I encountered a setback due to my inexperience with the
>translator roster. I hadn't gone through the whole procedure and only
>yesterday I received the approval from the FSF: "Hubert Lombard has
>been successfully subscribed to the Translators mailing list", (my
>registration details having remained cached for about 2 or 3 weeks, the
>validation worked). It was the robot that asked me to satisfy this
>requirement. But I was a bit lost because I know that Guix does not
>require copyright. So I sent a mail to the french translation team
>manager and he answered me asking me details about guix, guix-packages
>and guix-manual. I answered him that I was only working on guix-manual,
>the translator of the other 2 being already assigned to them.
>
>His réponse : "Ok, I will register you without reservation"
>
>Today I tried again to send the .po file on which I made some progress,
>but it was rejected: "According to my notes, Hubert Lombard is not a
>member of the French team."
>
>Well, I think it's just a matter of time ;-) No other errors were
>mentioned. There is a message that informs me about what still needs to
>be translated, but it doesn't look like an injunction, just an
>information > 8534 translated messages, 750 fuzzy translations, 602
>untranslated messages.
>
>I'm a bit nervous, knowing that 1.2.0 is about to be released, I was
>wondering if I would have time to send my version before the deadline.
>I'm currently at over 86%.
>
>If you have any comments, please let me know.
>
>Wishing you a good evening,
>
>Friendly,
>
>-- 
>Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Le Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:16:42 -0400,
Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> a écrit :

> Do you want to send me the file? I'll submit it for you if you can't
> do it yet. We still have a bit of time ahead of us, as the release is
> planned for the beginning of November.

Hi Julien,

Thank you for your answer :-)

I've just received a good info from the person who is an intermediary with the administrator, to whom the following message is also addressed:

    Could you please register Hubert Lombard 
   <contact@hubert-lombard.website> as a new member of the French team ?

   With options :

   - No disclaimer
   - Autosend = plain       

So for that it's going to be good I think, I should be on the team soon.

The fact that the release is planned for the beginning of November is the other good news.

So, I want to take advantage of this to translate some more messages and fix other approximate translations.
Until then, the robot will certainly be able to accept the .po file.

Anyway, it's good to know that in case of a problem, I can always send you the file.
Thanks for that ;-)

Have a good end of evening,

Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas]

Hi, Hubert!

Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> Hello guix!
>
> Trying to contribute to the French translation for guix-manual, I encounter some problems.
>
> Everything I tried to translate was mostly done under Guix System with
> Gtranslator. A little bit with poedit too, but... when I go under
> debian (dual-boot), I find that translations done under Guix System
> are apparently not seen, for example :
>
> With Guix System : $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po
>                    8471 messages traduits, 813 traductions approximatives, 602 messages non traduits.
>
> With debian :      $ msgfmt -cv guix-manual-1.2.0-pre2.fr.po
>                    8459 messages traduits, 825 traductions approximatives, 602 messages non traduits.
>
> Du coup, I don't know if the 12 translated messages and the 12
> approximate translations set have been taken into account or not. But
> I think not... From time to time, I have the impression to redo some
> translations/modifications.

This seems a bit unsettling, sure, but probably is just a matter of
paths, or unnoticed errors somewhere...

> The first time I tried poedit under Guix System, I thought I saw a
> stealthy message like "translation error" or something like that. The
> following times, this message didn't appear anymore.

Like this one.  I hope it's just the former and that was an unrelated
message.  :-(

> Could it be a localization problem? In order to test, I created
> /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES which currently contains en_en.msg,
> messages.mo, my_file.po and test.mo (These files come from gtranslator
> and poedit, in which I have previously entered the path to
> /LC_MESSAGES.

You don't need these paths for the manual translation, it isn't even
translated at runtime.  :-)

Guix compilation is the process taking care of it.  To test it, with
Guix installed and on top the source code from Git, I do the following
(change 'es' for 'fr', and omit the steps marked as "!" when you have
already done them once):

  $ cp /path/to/my/working/es.po po/doc/guix-manual.es.po
  $ guix environment guix
! [env] $ ./bootstrap
! [env] $ ./configure --localstatedir=/var
! [env] $ make
  [env] $ make info && info -f doc/guix.es.info

You can cancel the "make" step as soon as you see a MAKEINFO line, it's
needed only to generate some additional files for the manual.

> Well, I think it's just a matter of time ;-)
[...]
> I'm a bit nervous, knowing that 1.2.0 is about to be released, I was
> wondering if I would have time to send my version before the
> deadline. I'm currently at over 86%.

It's normal feeling sometimes like that, more when it's the first
release you're involved---speaking from my own experience---, but you
also have to look it from the other side: ~90% means that a huge portion
of the manual text can be read by French speakers!  :-)

> If you have any comments, please let me know.

I don't know how perform poedit and gtranslator at this, but seeing the
actual .po (as with po-mode with emacs) eases a lot the cleanup of fuzzy
translations first, because you can spot the difference between the old
and new msgids---note to writers, please keep the paragraphs
short:)---and apply just that to the text when it's needed, as sometimes
the translation didn't have a typo at all.

> Wishing you a good evening,

I wish you have one too. :-)

Happy hacking!
Miguel

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Le Mon, 26 Oct 2020 22:40:27 +0100,
Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> a écrit :

 Hi, Miguel!

> Guix compilation is the process taking care of it.  To test it, with
> Guix installed and on top the source code from Git, I do the following
> (change 'es' for 'fr', and omit the steps marked as "!" when you have
> already done them once):
> 
>   $ cp /path/to/my/working/es.po po/doc/guix-manual.es.po
>   $ guix environment guix
> ! [env] $ ./bootstrap
> ! [env] $ ./configure --localstatedir=/var
> ! [env] $ make
>   [env] $ make info && info -f doc/guix.es.info
> 
> You can cancel the "make" step as soon as you see a MAKEINFO line,
> it's needed only to generate some additional files for the manual.

I tried this but it seems that my configuration is not the same as
yours, since I'm not even sure I have the Git source code (My
installation of Guix System was done by the iso image).

[env]$ ./bootstrap
bash: ./bootstrap: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type

Well, I'll keep your example for further tests, a good way to start in
guix environment guix.

> It's normal feeling sometimes like that, more when it's the first
> release you're involved---speaking from my own experience---, but you
> also have to look it from the other side: ~90% means that a huge
> portion of the manual text can be read by French speakers!  :-)

It's true, Ludo, Simon, Julien and others have done an excellent job,
which I can refer to for a few questions I have.

In addition, I expect to be able to advance a little more in the
translation work before submitting it, the next release 1.2.0 being
planned for early November.

> I don't know how perform poedit and gtranslator at this, but seeing
> the actual .po (as with po-mode with emacs) eases a lot the cleanup
> of fuzzy translations first, because you can spot the difference
> between the old and new msgids---note to writers, please keep the
> paragraphs short:)---and apply just that to the text when it's
> needed, as sometimes the translation didn't have a typo at all.

In the past, with debian or ubuntu, I had tried to use emacs but I
understood absolutely nothing about it. I'm tempted to try again soon,
especially with the po-mode...

> Happy hacking!
Thank you, have some good times too!

-- 
Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas]

Hi, Hubert!

Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> I tried this but it seems that my configuration is not the same as
> yours, since I'm not even sure I have the Git source code (My
> installation of Guix System was done by the iso image).

I supposed you have a clone of the repository, if not you need these two
extra steps (I suppose you don't even have Git in your profile[1], just
a running guix installation):

$ guix environment --ad-hoc git -- git clone https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git
$ cd guix

And then the steps from my last mail. :-)

> It's true, Ludo, Simon, Julien and others have done an excellent job,
> which I can refer to for a few questions I have.
>
> In addition, I expect to be able to advance a little more in the
> translation work before submitting it, the next release 1.2.0 being
> planned for early November.

I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-)

>> I don't know how perform poedit and gtranslator at this, but seeing
>> the actual .po (as with po-mode with emacs) eases a lot the cleanup
>> of fuzzy translations first, because you can spot the difference
>> between the old and new msgids---note to writers, please keep the
>> paragraphs short:)---and apply just that to the text when it's
>> needed, as sometimes the translation didn't have a typo at all.
>
> In the past, with debian or ubuntu, I had tried to use emacs but I
> understood absolutely nothing about it. I'm tempted to try again soon,
> especially with the po-mode...

Po-mode is easy... once you get the key bindings, hehehe.  'f' (fuzzy),
'u' (untranslated), RET (edit the current translation, open an Emacs
window) and 'C-c C-c' (accept the translation, close the Emacs window).
Upper case letters for the reverse order... And the rest are
nice-to-have features, like 'V' to execute msgfmt and so on.

Best regards,
Miguel

[1] I personally recommend you to use in your daily work git or any
other VCS: they are very useful tools, help to avoid lots of problems
and aren't really hard to use for an only-forward workflow (save =
commit), which is a real life saver sometimes.

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas]

Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> writes:
> I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-)

Oops, sorry, s/ensure/reassure you/, I've hit send too early.

Have a nice day!
Miguel

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Hi, Miguel!

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:42:05 +0100
Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> wrote:


> 
> I supposed you have a clone of the repository, if not you need these
> two extra steps (I suppose you don't even have Git in your
> profile[1], just a running guix installation):
> 
> $ guix environment --ad-hoc git -- git clone
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git $ cd guix
> 
> And then the steps from my last mail. :-)

Nice! I'll try. 

> I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-)
 
Yes, I can advance enough for now, at the end of this day, I hope to
have 88% or more translated. Don't worry for your "I'm sure", I had
understood ;-)

> Po-mode is easy... once you get the key bindings, hehehe.  'f'
> (fuzzy), 'u' (untranslated), RET (edit the current translation, open
> an Emacs window) and 'C-c C-c' (accept the translation, close the
> Emacs window). Upper case letters for the reverse order... And the
> rest are nice-to-have features, like 'V' to execute msgfmt and so on.

I will have a look.
 
> [1] I personally recommend you to use in your daily work git or any
> other VCS: they are very useful tools, help to avoid lots of problems
> and aren't really hard to use for an only-forward workflow (save =
> commit), which is a real life saver sometimes.

Very interesting, when I have a moment, I'll try too... This will allow me to
to enter a little more into the living side of guix, indeed :-)

Again, thanks for yours recommendations ;)

--
Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Hi, Miguel and help-guix!

My .po file was accepted by the robot :-)

Le Wed, 28 Oct 2020 16:28:02 +0100,
Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :

> > I supposed you have a clone of the repository, if not you need these
> > two extra steps (I suppose you don't even have Git in your
> > profile[1], just a running guix installation):
> > 
> > $ guix environment --ad-hoc git -- git clone
> > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git $ cd guix

I have also successfully applied that:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
..........................................................................
Clonage dans 'guix'...
remote: Counting objects: 400379, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (85909/85909), done.
remote: Total 400379 (delta 314357), reused 399468 (delta 313654)
Réception d'objets: 100% (400379/400379), 141.84 Mio | 233.00 Kio/s, fait.
Résolution des deltas: 100% (314357/314357), fait.
Mise à jour des fichiers: 100% (2212/2212), fait.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
> > And then the steps from my last mail. :-)

Now, my current working path: '/home/hubert/Guix System/Contributions/TP guix-manual'

I keep stored my current 'guix-manual 1.2.0-pre2.fr.po' into this 'TP guix-manual' directory.

Inside 'TP guix-manual', I have just created a directory named '/fr.po po', in which I have created a '/doc' repository, and finaly, inside this latter a '/guix-manual.fr.po' repository.

So, the full path is  '/home/hubert/Guix System/Contributions/TP guix-manual/fr.po po/doc/guix-manual.fr.po'

However, I have several uncertainties, before to continue: 

1) My '/guix-manual.fr.po' must be a directory or is it the 'guix-manual 1.2.0-pre2.fr.po' file?
 
2) Do these folders already need to contain references or can they be created with nothing in them?

3) From your exemple, you wrote: '$ cp
/path/to/my/working/es.popo/doc/guix-manual.es.po' . 

Did you mean to say 'cp' or 'cd'?

Thanks to your support, I managed to advance a little in my knowledge of Guix!

Best regards

--
Hubert


  
 
 




 

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 29 octobre 2020 14:32:58 GMT-04:00, Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :
>
>Hi, Miguel and help-guix!
>
>My .po file was accepted by the robot :-)
>
>Le Wed, 28 Oct 2020 16:28:02 +0100,
>Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :
>
>> > I supposed you have a clone of the repository, if not you need
>these
>> > two extra steps (I suppose you don't even have Git in your
>> > profile[1], just a running guix installation):
>> > 
>> > $ guix environment --ad-hoc git -- git clone
>> > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git $ cd guix
>
>I have also successfully applied that:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>..........................................................................
>Clonage dans 'guix'...
>remote: Counting objects: 400379, done.
>remote: Compressing objects: 100% (85909/85909), done.
>remote: Total 400379 (delta 314357), reused 399468 (delta 313654)
>Réception d'objets: 100% (400379/400379), 141.84 Mio | 233.00 Kio/s,
>fait.
>Résolution des deltas: 100% (314357/314357), fait.
>Mise à jour des fichiers: 100% (2212/2212), fait.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> > And then the steps from my last mail. :-)
>

Very good news! Thanks for your hard work and perseverance :)

>Now, my current working path: '/home/hubert/Guix
>System/Contributions/TP guix-manual'
>
>I keep stored my current 'guix-manual 1.2.0-pre2.fr.po' into this 'TP
>guix-manual' directory.
>
>Inside 'TP guix-manual', I have just created a directory named '/fr.po
>po', in which I have created a '/doc' repository, and finaly, inside
>this latter a '/guix-manual.fr.po' repository.
>
>So, the full path is  '/home/hubert/Guix System/Contributions/TP
>guix-manual/fr.po po/doc/guix-manual.fr.po'
>
>However, I have several uncertainties, before to continue: 
>
>1) My '/guix-manual.fr.po' must be a directory or is it the
>'guix-manual 1.2.0-pre2.fr.po' file?

Yeah, it's this file, not a directory. In fact the name and location of the file doesn't matter because…

> 
>2) Do these folders already need to contain references or can they be
>created with nothing in them?
>
>3) From your exemple, you wrote: '$ cp
>/path/to/my/working/es.popo/doc/guix-manual.es.po' . 
>
>Did you mean to say 'cp' or 'cd'?

This is really cp, meaning you copy your version of po file to the guix source hierachy. This replace the existing one. Contrary to other po files, the manual's po file is not loaded at runtime. We use po4a to generate the translated manuals at build time. That's why it's necessary to have a copy of the guix sources if you want to build it.

That's also the reason why the place you store your own version of the file doesn't matter. As long as you copy it from whatever directory it's in to the proper location insile the guix source tree, it's fine.

>
>Thanks to your support, I managed to advance a little in my knowledge
>of Guix!
>
>Best regards
>
>--
>Hubert
>
>
>  
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 29 octobre 2020 14:32:58 GMT-04:00, Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :
>
>Hi, Miguel and help-guix!
>
>My .po file was accepted by the robot :-)
>

Actually, I just had a look at the file you created. There are multiple issues with it. Remember that the text is in texinfo format, so anything of the form @command{content} is a texinfo command. If you translate it, it might have unexpected effects (not able to compile, …).

For instance, I see you translated @value{VERSION} (which is a command that dereferences a texinfo variable and replaces it with its value, eg. 1.2.0) by @valeur{VERSION}. @valeur is not a valid texinfo command :)

There's a command that has been completely removed and all that's left is a lonely {--gc-keep-derivations}. And similar stuff :)

Additionnaly, (and I should have told you earlier), you should not translate the @pxref, @xref and @ref commands yourself, as this is done automatically afterwards. This ensures that we don't get in trouble if a title is changed (or its translation), because texinfo is really picky when it comes to making links.

Right now, I see two different capitalisations of the French title, and none of tgem is the same as the actual title, which is an error.

If you're not working on that file right now, I can take care of fixing these issues and give you control over the file again tomorrow morning. If you prefer to fix the file yourself, can you ping me (roptat) on IRC? I can guide you through the process of building the manual, so you can see and fix the issues.

Thanks!

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Hi, Julien and help-guix :-)

Le Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:17:44 -0400,
Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> a écrit :

> Actually, I just had a look at the file you created. There are
> multiple issues with it. Remember that the text is in texinfo format,
> so anything of the form @command{content} is a texinfo command. If
> you translate it, it might have unexpected effects (not able to
> compile, …).
> 
> For instance, I see you translated @value{VERSION} (which is a
> command that dereferences a texinfo variable and replaces it with its
> value, eg. 1.2.0) by @valeur{VERSION}. @valeur is not a valid texinfo
> command :)
> 
> There's a command that has been completely removed and all that's
> left is a lonely {--gc-keep-derivations}. And similar stuff :)
> 
> Additionnaly, (and I should have told you earlier), you should not
> translate the @pxref, @xref and @ref commands yourself, as this is
> done automatically afterwards. This ensures that we don't get in
> trouble if a title is changed (or its translation), because texinfo
> is really picky when it comes to making links.
> 
> Right now, I see two different capitalisations of the French title,
> and none of tgem is the same as the actual title, which is an error.

Thank you for your attention, I'm not at all surprised that it gave such a result.
When I was translating, I asked myself the same questions about all
these subtleties and I tried to solve them as I went along (while
Poedit told me that there were no errors in the translation :-) 
 
> If you're not working on that file right now, I can take care of
> fixing these issues and give you control over the file again tomorrow
> morning. 

It's very nice of you, I'd like you to take care of it if you can. Tomorrow morning, I will study carefully what you will have done.
Really, thank you Julien!

I also read your answers on git clone, I'll take good note of them too
;)

Well, I'm going to go rest a little bit!


> Thanks!

Thanks to you!

Kind regards

Hubert



-- 

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas]

Hi!

Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> Hi, Julien and help-guix :-)
>
> Le Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:17:44 -0400,
> Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> a écrit :
[...]
>> Actually, I just had a look at the file you created. There are
>> multiple issues with it. Remember that the text is in texinfo format,
>> so anything of the form @command{content} is a texinfo command. If
>> you translate it, it might have unexpected effects (not able to
>> compile, …).
[...]
> (while Poedit told me that there were no errors in the translation :-)

It's possible that poedit uses msgfmt underneath to check the
translation, so it only will warn you you about newlines at the end of
the string when the original doesn't have it and things like that, but
unfortunately not about the texinfo syntax.  And about the tags:

- @example/@lisp: Its a code fragment used to show something to the
  reader.  The comments usually should be translated, even though some
  words may reference API or other code names outside the example, so it
  can be tricky.  Usually the code can be "adapted" in varying degree;
  sometimes you can translate almost everything and only the keywords of
  the language stay the same keeping the same semantics, but lots of
  times you cannot change almost any letter as everything are API
  identifiers and changing it would modify the semantics of the example.

- @var: It indicates a reference to something that can be
  provided/modified by the end-user, and usually its content can be
  translated, always matching the translation used in all its
  references, and, maybe some @example/@lisp code it references.

- @code, @command, @env, @file and @option: They indicate text with some
  kind of meaning to the computer, either API identifiers or code
  fragments (@code), commands that could be executed (@command),
  environment variables (@env), file references (@file) or options for
  the executable(s) that the manual is written for (@option).  Its
  contents shouldn't be translated, unless they really refer to an
  example that has already been adapted to the language.

- @indicateurl, @ref, @xref and @pxref: They indicate links to other
  documents (@indicateurl), or to other sections of the manual itself
  (@?*ref).  These are the trickiest from my point of view.  As Julien
  explained, these identifiers are changed automatically during the
  manual translation generation, but not all parameters (think of them
  as function calls) are really the same.  The first one shouldn't be
  translated, and usually it's the only one, neither the external
  references (the ones with 5 parameters) as there is no translation for
  most of GNU manuals.  Only the second and third parameters when they
  are the last ones should be translated.  The tag @indicateurl also has
  this semantics.  As an example from my translation, the original text

"@pxref{fallback-option,, common build option @option{--fallback}}"

Translates to this in spanish:

"@pxref{fallback-option,, opción común de construcción @option{--fallback}}"

I think these should be the most common ones, at least the ones from the
top of my head.

Or, like the manual could say:  @xref{Top,,, texinfo, GNU Texinfo} or
@indicateurl{https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/texinfo.html},
for more information about these tags.  ;-)

[...]
>> If you're not working on that file right now, I can take care of
>> fixing these issues and give you control over the file again tomorrow
>> morning.

I have to say thank you too, even though I'm not a French user, because
these are the things make this community really great. :-)

> It's very nice of you, I'd like you to take care of it if you
> can. Tomorrow morning, I will study carefully what you will have done.
> Really, thank you Julien!
>
> I also read your answers on git clone, I'll take good note of them too
> ;)

Tomorrow I'll be available some time on IRC too, usually by the initial
letters of my name.  You can check on the channel too if you have any
doubt or issue.

> Well, I'm going to go rest a little bit!
>
>> Thanks!
>
> Thanks to you!

Good night, and thanks to you, both, again! :-)

And just one comment from an older mail:

Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:42:05 +0100
> Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-)
>
> Yes, I can advance enough for now, at the end of this day, I hope to
> have 88% or more translated. Don't worry for your "I'm sure", I had
> understood ;-)

Sorry, and thanks for your understanding.  I was trying to write
something to encourage you somehow, but I left it to the end as I didn't
find the words... and I sent it by mistake. :-(

Best regards,
Miguel

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Hi, Miguel and help-guix!

Le Fri, 30 Oct 2020 00:42:58 +0100,
Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> a écrit :

> Hi!
> 
> Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> > Hi, Julien and help-guix :-)
> >
> > Le Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:17:44 -0400,
> > Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> a écrit :  
> [...]
> >> Actually, I just had a look at the file you created. There are
> >> multiple issues with it. Remember that the text is in texinfo
> >> format, so anything of the form @command{content} is a texinfo
> >> command. If you translate it, it might have unexpected effects
> >> (not able to compile, …).  
> [...]
> > (while Poedit told me that there were no errors in the translation
> > :-)  
> 
> It's possible that poedit uses msgfmt underneath to check the
> translation, so it only will warn you you about newlines at the end of
> the string when the original doesn't have it and things like that, but
> unfortunately not about the texinfo syntax.  And about the tags:
> 
> - @example/@lisp: Its a code fragment used to show something to the
>   reader.  The comments usually should be translated, even though some
>   words may reference API or other code names outside the example, so
> it can be tricky.  Usually the code can be "adapted" in varying
> degree; sometimes you can translate almost everything and only the
> keywords of the language stay the same keeping the same semantics,
> but lots of times you cannot change almost any letter as everything
> are API identifiers and changing it would modify the semantics of the
> example.
> 
> - @var: It indicates a reference to something that can be
>   provided/modified by the end-user, and usually its content can be
>   translated, always matching the translation used in all its
>   references, and, maybe some @example/@lisp code it references.
> 
> - @code, @command, @env, @file and @option: They indicate text with
> some kind of meaning to the computer, either API identifiers or code
>   fragments (@code), commands that could be executed (@command),
>   environment variables (@env), file references (@file) or options for
>   the executable(s) that the manual is written for (@option).  Its
>   contents shouldn't be translated, unless they really refer to an
>   example that has already been adapted to the language.
> 
> - @indicateurl, @ref, @xref and @pxref: They indicate links to other
>   documents (@indicateurl), or to other sections of the manual itself
>   (@?*ref).  These are the trickiest from my point of view.  As Julien
>   explained, these identifiers are changed automatically during the
>   manual translation generation, but not all parameters (think of them
>   as function calls) are really the same.  The first one shouldn't be
>   translated, and usually it's the only one, neither the external
>   references (the ones with 5 parameters) as there is no translation
> for most of GNU manuals.  Only the second and third parameters when
> they are the last ones should be translated.  The tag @indicateurl
> also has this semantics.  As an example from my translation, the
> original text
> 
> "@pxref{fallback-option,, common build option @option{--fallback}}"
> 
> Translates to this in spanish:
> 
> "@pxref{fallback-option,, opción común de construcción
> @option{--fallback}}"
> 
> I think these should be the most common ones, at least the ones from
> the top of my head.
> 
> Or, like the manual could say:  @xref{Top,,, texinfo, GNU Texinfo} or
> @indicateurl{https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/texinfo.html},
> for more information about these tags.  ;-)

These explanations are going to be very useful, I copied them in my personal documentation.
in order to be able to study them in more detail later :-)
 
> [...]
> >> If you're not working on that file right now, I can take care of
> >> fixing these issues and give you control over the file again
> >> tomorrow morning.  
> 
> I have to say thank you too, even though I'm not a French user,
> because these are the things make this community really great. :-)

Yes, by the way, Julien has fixed the problems since yesterday and made the .po valid!
I hope to be able to meet you all soon at an event ;-)

> > It's very nice of you, I'd like you to take care of it if you
> > can. Tomorrow morning, I will study carefully what you will have
> > done. Really, thank you Julien!
> >
> > I also read your answers on git clone, I'll take good note of them
> > too ;)  
> 
> Tomorrow I'll be available some time on IRC too, usually by the
> initial letters of my name.  You can check on the channel too if you
> have any doubt or issue.
> 
> > Well, I'm going to go rest a little bit!
> >  
> >> Thanks!  
> >
> > Thanks to you!  
> 
> Good night, and thanks to you, both, again! :-)
> 
> And just one comment from an older mail:
> 
> Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> writes:
> > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:42:05 +0100
> > Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> wrote:  
> >> I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-)  
> >
> > Yes, I can advance enough for now, at the end of this day, I hope to
> > have 88% or more translated. Don't worry for your "I'm sure", I had
> > understood ;-)  
> 
> Sorry, and thanks for your understanding.  I was trying to write
> something to encourage you somehow, but I left it to the end as I
> didn't find the words... and I sent it by mistake. :-(

Don't worry, I also feel the fervor in which you are involved and your answers on the translation and git clone were very helpful to me.
I will be able to take some time to assimilate all this...

See you soon

-- 
Hubert

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 29 octobre 2020 17:21:22 GMT-04:00, Hubert Lombard <contact@hubert-lombard.website> a écrit :
>Hi, Julien and help-guix :-)
>
>It's very nice of you, I'd like you to take care of it if you can.
>Tomorrow morning, I will study carefully what you will have done.
>Really, thank you Julien!
>
>I also read your answers on git clone, I'll take good note of them too
>;)
>
>Well, I'm going to go rest a little bit!
>
>
>> Thanks!
>
>Thanks to you!
>
>Kind regards
>
>Hubert

Alright, I managed to fix the issues and appeased the TP robot sufficiently to get it accepted :) I pushed the update to guix itself, so the devel manual should be updated soon on the website. Thanks again for your hard work on this!

Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual

[Hubert Lombard]

Le Thu, 29 Oct 2020 20:00:13 -0400,
Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> a écrit :


> Alright, I managed to fix the issues and appeased the TP robot
> sufficiently to get it accepted :) I pushed the update to guix
> itself, so the devel manual should be updated soon on the website.
> Thanks again for your hard work on this!

A very great thanks!

Cheers



-- 
Hubert