Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi Guix!

I want to buy a printer to use with a Guix System machine.  At a bare
minimum, it just needs to print in black and white reliably, but I hope
I can find one that does more than just the bare minimum.

Has anyone here successfully printed (and/or scanned) using Guix System?
If so, would you be willing to share details?  If you don't want to
share details publicly, please consider emailing me privately instead.
I'm interested in information like the following:

* Manufacturer and model number
* Features that you've verified work
* Features that you've verified don't work
* Any special steps you had to take to get features working
* Does it work with CUPS?
* Other concerns (e.g., privacy, cartridge DRM)

I'd really appreciate any information you can share!  I've found that
h-node and openprinting.org are kind of difficult to use.  Even when
I've found a printer there that looks reasonable, there's no guarantee
it'll work with Guix System specifically.  That's why I'm asking here.

Thank you,

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[znavko]

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Hi! I think you are too optimistic, thinking guixsd works fine with printer drivers (that are proprietary in the mass). 
Here you can try to find http://h-node.org/ <http://h-node.org/> but info from there is very old and offered models are old.
But if you will not get result, you can try trisquel where it is possible to solve problems with printer drivers.


>
> I'd really appreciate any information you can share!  I've found that
> h-node and openprinting.org are kind of difficult to use.  Even when
> I've found a printer there that looks reasonable, there's no guarantee
> it'll work with Guix System specifically.  That's why I'm asking here.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- 
> Chris
>


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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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<znavko@tutanota.com> writes:

> Hi! I think you are too optimistic, thinking guixsd works fine with
> printer drivers (that are proprietary in the mass).
> Here you can try to find http://h-node.org/ <http://h-node.org/> but
> info from there is very old and offered models are old.
> But if you will not get result, you can try trisquel where it is
> possible to solve problems with printer drivers.

If optimism is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged! :-)

I realize it will be difficult to find a printer that works well with
Guix System.  It's already difficult to find a printer that works well
with GNU/Linux systems in general.  That's why I'm asking on this email
list for anyone who has successfully printed using Guix System to share
their success story.  I hope it will help me (and others) find printers
that works with Guix System.

Thank you for mentioning h-node.  I've actually spent quite some time
already searching h-node and openprinting.org, and I agree that although
they are useful, they are a bit difficult to use.  And like you've said,
the information they contain is often incomplete or old.  If we collect
enough useful information here, perhaps we can share the details with
h-node and openprinting.org to improve their databases.  Beyond h-node
and openprinting.org, do you know of any other good resources?

Thank you,

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[znavko]

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Kyocera 2530 MF worked fine through usb and network on foomatic driver also on a driver from kyocera web-site. Under AltLinux. 
But Xerox, I think has worse compatibility with Linux. Scanner not works. A5 printing might not work.

So Kyocera is more preferred by me. Think, this can help you to start your search.


Mar 23, 2019, 8:42 PM by cmmarusich@gmail.com:

> <> znavko@tutanota.com <mailto:znavko@tutanota.com>> > writes:
>
>> Hi! I think you are too optimistic, thinking guixsd works fine with
>> printer drivers (that are proprietary in the mass).
>> Here you can try to find >> http://h-node.org <http://h-node.org/>>>  <>> http://h-node.org <http://h-node.org/>>> > but
>> info from there is very old and offered models are old.
>> But if you will not get result, you can try trisquel where it is
>> possible to solve problems with printer drivers.
>>
>
> If optimism is a crime, then I'm guilty as charged! :-)
>
> I realize it will be difficult to find a printer that works well with
> Guix System.  It's already difficult to find a printer that works well
> with GNU/Linux systems in general.  That's why I'm asking on this email
> list for anyone who has successfully printed using Guix System to share
> their success story.  I hope it will help me (and others) find printers
> that works with Guix System.
>
> Thank you for mentioning h-node.  I've actually spent quite some time
> already searching h-node and openprinting.org, and I agree that although
> they are useful, they are a bit difficult to use.  And like you've said,
> the information they contain is often incomplete or old.  If we collect
> enough useful information here, perhaps we can share the details with
> h-node and openprinting.org to improve their databases.  Beyond h-node
> and openprinting.org, do you know of any other good resources?
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- 
> Chris
>


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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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<znavko@tutanota.com> writes:

> Kyocera 2530 MF worked fine through usb and network on foomatic driver also on a driver from kyocera web-site. Under AltLinux. 
> But Xerox, I think has worse compatibility with Linux. Scanner not works. A5 printing might not work.
>
> So Kyocera is more preferred by me. Think, this can help you to start your search.

OK, thank you for the reference.  It sounds like you haven't confirmed
that this one works on Guix System, but it's good to know that it works
on some GNU/Linux system at all!

I'm looking for printers that people have used successfully with Guix
System (formerly: GuixSD) specifically.

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Jovany Leandro G.C]

El Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:27:47 -0700
Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> escribió:
> Hi Guix!
> 
> I want to buy a printer to use with a Guix System machine.  At a bare
> minimum, it just needs to print in black and white reliably, but I
> hope I can find one that does more than just the bare minimum.
> 
> Has anyone here successfully printed (and/or scanned) using Guix
> System? If so, would you be willing to share details?  If you don't
> want to share details publicly, please consider emailing me privately
> instead. I'm interested in information like the following:
> 
> * Manufacturer and model number
> * Features that you've verified work
> * Features that you've verified don't work
> * Any special steps you had to take to get features working
> * Does it work with CUPS?
> * Other concerns (e.g., privacy, cartridge DRM)
> 
> I'd really appreciate any information you can share!  I've found that
> h-node and openprinting.org are kind of difficult to use.  Even when
> I've found a printer there that looks reasonable, there's no guarantee
> it'll work with Guix System specifically.  That's why I'm asking here.
> 
> Thank you,
> 

hi, thanks for not buy hardware incompatible with software libre 100%

you can use openprinting look at https://www.openprinting.org/printers,
search the printer if you see something about download a driver
(.deb,.rpm) be sure it's not compatible with software libre 100%,
look at http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ this printer are working, i worked
with HP LaserJet 1020.

look at https://h-node.org/printers/catalogue/en and check the field
'compatibility with free software:' = 'A-Full'. 

note: if you have something that's work or not work with software libre
100%, example laptop or PC, printer,scanner,etc.. please contribute on
community database h-node -

and my best option, go to shop center with your laptop with
software libre 100% connect the printer and see you can install
it and print.

thanks 
se libre

Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi Jovany,

Thank you for getting back to me!

"Jovany Leandro G.C" <bit4bit@riseup.net> writes:

> note: if you have something that's work or not work with software
> libre 100%, example laptop or PC, printer,scanner,etc.. please
> contribute on community database h-node -

Definitely.  Once I gather some information, I plan on sharing it.

> look at http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ this printer are working, i worked
> with HP LaserJet 1020.

Have you tested this printer with Guix System (i.e., GuixSD)?

> and my best option, go to shop center with your laptop with
> software libre 100% connect the printer and see you can install
> it and print.

That's a great idea!  I'll see if the stores near me let me do this.

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi everyone,

Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> writes:

> "Jovany Leandro G.C" <bit4bit@riseup.net> writes:
>
>> and my best option, go to shop center with your laptop with
>> software libre 100% connect the printer and see you can install
>> it and print.
>
> That's a great idea!  I'll see if the stores near me let me do this.

I went to a store and tested 8 different printers.  They didn't work
with Guix System, but I couldn't tell if the printer's fault or not.
Going forward, I think I'm going to bring along a more mainstream
FSDG-compliant distro, like Trisquel, so it's easier to tell if the
failure to print is a Guix-specific problem.

In some cases, when I printed a PDF from Evince, it printed the top half
of the PDF on the top half of the page, and the bottom half of the page
was blank.  It was as if the printer stopped printing in mid-sentence.
In spite of this, I was sometimes able to print an entire page from the
CUPS admin web UI, and also while viewing a PDF from within IceCat.  So
I think our Evince is messed up.

Evince has a history of suspicious printing behavior on Guix.  See:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2019-02/msg00195.html

I also noticed that for each printer with a scanner, sane-find-scanner
was able to find the scanner, but simple-scan and scanimage said they
couldn't find the scanner, even when I ran them as root.  Maybe I
configured it incorrectly?  I wasn't able to scan at all.

Anyway, my quest for a printer continues.  I'll let you know if and when
I find "The One"!  As always, if anyone has more info to share, please
do.

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Björn Höfling]

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Hi Chris,

thanks for sharing this information with us.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 23:30:52
-0700 Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> wrote:

> I also noticed that for each printer with a scanner, sane-find-scanner
> was able to find the scanner, but simple-scan and scanimage said they
> couldn't find the scanner, even when I ran them as root.  Maybe I
> configured it incorrectly?  I wasn't able to scan at all.

I'm on Ubuntu+Guix, using simple-scan from the Guix package. When I run
it from within i3, I see only one scanner I once used at a friend, I
don't see my home-scanner. Only when I use XFCE, I see my scanner.
Haven't figured out who's fault it is.

sane-find-scanners doesn't find the scanner, but when I read the man
page of it, no wonders: The scanner is network-connected and the manual
says it will scan for USB and SCSI scanners.
 
> Anyway, my quest for a printer continues.  I'll let you know if and
> when I find "The One"!  As always, if anyone has more info to share,
> please do.

I'm excited to read the follow-ups :-)

Björn

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Chris,

> Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> "Jovany Leandro G.C" <bit4bit@riseup.net> writes:
>>
>>> and my best option, go to shop center with your laptop with
>>> software libre 100% connect the printer and see you can install
>>> it and print.
>>
>> That's a great idea!  I'll see if the stores near me let me do this.
>
> I went to a store and tested 8 different printers.  They didn't work
> with Guix System, but I couldn't tell if the printer's fault or not.
> Going forward, I think I'm going to bring along a more mainstream
> FSDG-compliant distro, like Trisquel, so it's easier to tell if the
> failure to print is a Guix-specific problem.

Oh, that sounds painful.

> Anyway, my quest for a printer continues.  I'll let you know if and when
> I find "The One"!  As always, if anyone has more info to share, please
> do.

I would like to note that I’ve tested my Brother HL-L2370DN laser
printer again and it still works fine.  I also added the brlaser package
to Guix.

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi all,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> Oh, that sounds painful.

It's sooo painful!  I read a good article while looking for printers:

https://thewirecutter.com/blog/why-all-printers-suck-even-the-best-ones/

This statement really resonated with me: "Like most things in life that
you have no control over, you'll be happier if you accept printers for
the janky money pits that they really are."

I'm inclined to agree.  It seems like all "consumer-grade" printers are
designed to fail or become obsolete only a few years after you purchase
them [1].  I couldn't justify spending any significant money on the
printers in the stores I visited, knowing that even if I spent $500 on a
"nice" printer, it would still be terrible, and it would still fail in
only a few years.

So I bought a cheaper one.  I avoided HP because I know they use DRM to
enforce the use of their own ink cartridges.  I favored Brother because
I've heard fewer bad things about Brother regarding GNU/Linux support,
and it seemed like you've had some success with that brand in the past.
In the end, I got a Brother HL-L2390DW, and it works.  Kind of.

I tried a few models and brands in the store using both PureOS (a
FDSG-compliant derivative of Debian) and Guix System.  I must have tried
15 or 20 different "all in one" printers, and they all had scanners, but
I couldn't get a single scanner to work at all, on either distribution.
However, I was able to print well enough using PureOS on the following
printers:

* Epson ET-7700
* Brother HL-L2320D
* Brother HL-L2390DW.  This is the one I got.

I decided not to try the ET-7700 with Guix System because I decided I
rarely need to print in color (I'll go to a print shop for that), it was
more than I preferred to pay, and its scanner function didn't work even
on PureOS.

I decided to focus on Brother models because they were relatively
inexpensive laser printers.  My understanding is that laser printers
tend to last longer than inkjet printers, and it's more likely that you
can replace the toner with inexpensive third-party toner.  I expect the
printer to fail in 3-5 years, and after that I'll find another.  That's
not great for the environment, but unfortunately I've found no
"consumer-grade" printers with a longer expected lifetime.  At least
it's better than the 2-3 years I'd probably get with an inkjet printer.

I decided to get the Brother HL-L2390DW instead of the HL-L2320D because
it was only $20 more, and it came with a scanner.  The main difference
between the two is the wireless connectivity (that's the "W" in the
name) and the scanner.  The scanner doesn't work with PureOS or Guix
System, but I couldn't find any scanner that did work, anyway.  I'm
hoping that maybe someday I can figure out how to use the scanner with
some FSDG-compliant system, hopefully even Guix System.  A side project
to work on some day...

I tried using the HL-L2390DW in a variety of different configurations in
both PureOS and Guix System.  In short, IPP (over the network, not USB)
delivered the best results.  In the CUPS web UI (https://localhost:631),
in the Administration tab, when you click on "Add Printer", the
HL-L2390DW shows up under "Discovered Network Printers".  The CUPS web
UI automatically fills in the connection details and selects "IPP
Everywhere (tm)" as the model, so you can basically just stick with the
defaults when you add the printer.  When finished, you may want to set
various default options, and you may want to set the printer as the
system default.  In my case, I configured the printer to use duplex mode
(i.e., double-side printing) and to print in US Letter format.  You can
do all of this using the CUPS web UI.  This was relatively easy to do in
both PureOS and Guix System.

I tried printing various documents using various programs.  I tried
printing the default CUPS test document from the web UI, a PDF from
Evince, and the same PDF using the "lp" command line tool.  These test
documents include text and pictures.  When using IPP (i.e., the printer
added as described above), PureOS always printed correctly.

However, even when using IPP, on Guix System there were problems.  When
I printed the CUPS test document from the CUPS web UI, the printer
printed the same document on two sides of one piece of paper, and one
more time on a second sheet of paper.  I expected it to print on both
sides of only one sheet of paper, which is what it did when I tried the
same thing on PureOS.  In addition, the pictures did not print - only
the text and the border of the CUPS test document were printed
correctly.  The same thing happened when I tried to print out my PDF
file from Guix System: the print-out was missing some pictures, but all
other text was printed correctly.  This is good, since it means it's a
problem with Guix System, not the printer.  It isn't possible to fix the
printer, but it is possible to fix Guix System.  For now, I'm going to
print from PureOS until I can figure out what's wrong on Guix System.

I discovered another problem with brlaser that was not specific to Guix
System.  When I added the printer over USB using the brlaser driver (for
the HL-L2300D series), I observed similar results as with IPP: PureOS
printed pictures and text, while Guix System only printed text.
However, there were more problems.  In both PureOS and Guix System, the
bottom border of the CUPS test page was clipped off, as if the brlaser
driver had incorrectly shifted the vertical position of the document by
a few millimeters, or as if it had simply forgotten to draw the very
bottom of the page.  And mysteriously, when I tried to print my test
PDF, it consistently failed to print, causing the printer to display
"Out of memory" on its LCD panel.  Perhaps this is an indication that
brlaser was incorrectly sending tons of data to the printer.  This "Out
of memory" problem did not occur with all PDFs, but I was able to
trigger it with a few different PDFs, so it must be a bug that is
somehow related to the structure of those PDF files.  A mystery to be
solved upstream...

I tried a lot of other configurations: AppSocket, LPD, and so forth.
IPP delivered better results in every case.  For some reason, PureOS was
able to discover more network print servers (e.g., for LPD) than Guix
System, which discovered only the IPP server.  And finally, judging by
the output of "avahi-browse -avr", it seems that the Brother HL-L2390DW
does not advertise an IPPS server, so it probably doesn't support TLS,
which is unfortunate.  CUPS supports IPPS, so if I could use the printer
with the brlaser driver over USB, I could make the printer securely
available in my network via CUPS.  However, since the brlaser driver
doesn't work so well for me on both PureOS and Guix System, this option
isn't very practical for me at the moment.

None of the other printers I tested were any better, even on PureOS.
And some of them cost $300, $400, $500...  I'm satisfied with my
inexpensive, terrible Brother HL-L2390DW, but only barely.  My one
remaining hope is that when this little gremlin gives up the ghost in
3-5 years, there will be better options available.

Thanks for reading so far.  Hopefully someone out there will find this
information useful.  Should I open a bug report for the IPP problem in
which Guix System doesn't print pictures, even though it prints text?

Footnotes: 
[1]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for reading so far.

Thank you for the details and your patience!

> Hopefully someone out there will find this
> information useful.  Should I open a bug report for the IPP problem in
> which Guix System doesn't print pictures, even though it prints text?

Yes, please.

-- 
Ricardo


PS: I expect my laser printer to last more than 5 years, simply because
I rarely ever use it and because toner is very easy to replace as long
as compatible cartidges are available.

Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Pierre Neidhardt]

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Thanks this great write up and all the tips, very helpful indeed!

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> writes:

> And finally, judging by the output of "avahi-browse -avr", it seems
> that the Brother HL-L2390DW does not advertise an IPPS server, so it
> probably doesn't support TLS, which is unfortunate.

I was mistaken about this.  The Brother HL-L2390DW does support IPPS,
i.e. IPP over TLS.  However, it was not enabled by default, which is why
avahi-browse didn't find it.  This printer has an administrative web
interface reachable via a web browser.  You can log in and configure
lots of features, including TLS support for IPP printer queues.

I also learned that Debian has a lot of documentation regarding
printing.  The "driverless" printing looks especially promising:

https://wiki.debian.org/DriverlessPrinting

I've noticed that our package definition for cups-filters explicitly
passes the "--disable-driverless" option at configure time, with comment
that says "TODO: enable this".  Perhaps I will try doing that and see if
I can get Guix System printing over IPP just as nicely as PureOS.

PureOS, or should I say Debian, has some other neat features built in,
also.  They're documented on the above page.  For example, their CUPS is
configured to automatically create (driverless) PPD files on the fly
without requiring user interaction, which is really slick.  See
"Creating a Driverless Print Queue with cups-browsed" in the page linked
above for details.  On PureOS, I observed this automatic driverless PPD
creation in action, and it just worked.  It was quite impressive.

I feel a little more optimistic after reading Debian's description of
the future of driverless printing.  As for getting my scanner to work, I
think that's going to be a whole other can of worms...

-- 
Chris

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Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Chris,

> I want to buy a printer to use with a Guix System machine.  At a bare
> minimum, it just needs to print in black and white reliably, but I hope
> I can find one that does more than just the bare minimum.
>
> Has anyone here successfully printed (and/or scanned) using Guix
> System?

Yes!

I haven’t tried it recently but I had used my laser printer Brother
HL-L2370DN successfully.

I’m using this package definition:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(define-public brlaser
  (let ((commit "7ed0d6f2e8d5a8192c5621898b3ff920c95b66dc")
        (revision "1"))
    (package
      (name "brlaser")
      (version (git-version "0" revision commit))
      (source (origin
                (method git-fetch)
                (uri (git-reference
                      (url "https://github.com/pdewacht/brlaser.git")
                      (commit commit)))
                (sha256
                 (base32
                  "04spxjk42wah1j38w6iv4c2pasmpbh2gypv3xlmk7vh3yzfffpxf"))))
      (build-system cmake-build-system)
      (arguments
       `(#:configure-flags
         (list (string-append "-DCUPS_DATA_DIR="
                              (assoc-ref %outputs "out")
                              "/share/cups")
               (string-append "-DCUPS_SERVER_BIN="
                              (assoc-ref %outputs "out")
                              "/lib/cups"))))
      (inputs
       `(("ghostscript" ,ghostscript)
         ("cups" ,cups)
         ("zlib" ,zlib)))
      (home-page "TODO")
      (synopsis "TODO")
      (description "TODO")
      (license license:gpl2+))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I use this with the following CUPS service declaration:

          (service cups-service-type
                   (cups-configuration
                    (web-interface? #t)
                    (extensions
                     (list cups-filters brlaser))))

It’s just a monochrome printer (no scanner) and I verified that this one
feature works properly.  It prints the test pages and prints PDFs
(generated with LuaLaTeX from gbrief2 documents) just fin.

The toner cartriges can be refilled by a third party service for a few
times before they need to be replaced, but I haven’t printed enough to
have a need to refill.

I haven’t used it in a while, but I wanted to give it a try again soon.
(I bought it to print PCB masks onto transparencies to use them as photo
resist masks for etching PCBs, but I haven’t found enough time to
actually etch a little.)

The printer is pretty small for a laser printer and has no fancy
features (has an ethernet port, but no WiFi, no fancy display), which I
appreciate.

--
Ricardo

Re: Does your printer work with Guix System? Please share!

[Chris Marusich]

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Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> I haven’t tried it recently but I had used my laser printer Brother
> HL-L2370DN successfully.

Awesome, thank you Ricardo for sharing this information!

Does anyone else have any printing success stories?

-- 
Chris

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