website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[ng0]

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Our website currently shows no videos at all. In some of the blogposts
some of the talks are linked to and included.
A custom search including 'guix video site:gnu.org' (via searx)
gives you a bit more, but it's still a bad showcase.


We have talks in the artwork repository - but are those all of the talks
people have given in our community? If not, we should encourage and actively
advertise and include them in the homepage somehow. Be more visible.


Same goes for the videos. We should actively selfhost (or move content
(videos)) to GNU servers) content that is currently located elsewhere.
We have no control on external sources. If it's on the servers of some
conference today, who knows if the links will still work in 1, 3, or
even 10 years? Who knows if the data will still exist on their end in
the future?


This is somewhat of an echoe of an ongoing structuring in GNUnet. In one
of the exchanges I had with Torproject they told me that they selfhosts
all their talk sources, recordings of them (iirc), and papers (anonbib).
I'm still in the process of applying this for GNUnet.


I really want to see an extension to the homepage for talks, papers, recordins
on and around Guix. Even Guix-HPC is just linked via Blog Posts. It requires
too much mouse movements to get to this information. Even what we used to have
on the old website wasn't complete.

I'm not opening this as a bug because I want to gather input first.
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Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Mark H Weaver]

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> Our website currently shows no videos at all.

I thought you were mistaken about this, because there definitely was a
list of papers and talks (videos and slides) on our website, but now I
can't find it.  I guess it may have been lost in the recent website
update.  We should restore that section.

> Same goes for the videos. We should actively selfhost (or move content
> (videos)) to GNU servers) content that is currently located elsewhere.

Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
audio-video.gnu.org.

       Mark

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:

> ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
>> Our website currently shows no videos at all.
>
> I thought you were mistaken about this, because there definitely was a
> list of papers and talks (videos and slides) on our website, but now I
> can't find it.  I guess it may have been lost in the recent website
> update.  We should restore that section.

It should be here:

  https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
  https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/

>> Same goes for the videos. We should actively selfhost (or move content
>> (videos)) to GNU servers) content that is currently located elsewhere.
>
> Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
> audio-video.gnu.org.

Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).

It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
Masters to do that.

Mark, you’re already a member of
<https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.  ng0, would you like to
join and give a hand?  Anyone else?

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[ng0]

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Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.3K bytes:
> Hello,
> 
> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:
> 
> > ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> >> Our website currently shows no videos at all.
> >
> > I thought you were mistaken about this, because there definitely was a
> > list of papers and talks (videos and slides) on our website, but now I
> > can't find it.  I guess it may have been lost in the recent website
> > update.  We should restore that section.
> 
> It should be here:
> 
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/

This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.

> >> Same goes for the videos. We should actively selfhost (or move content
> >> (videos)) to GNU servers) content that is currently located elsewhere.
> >
> > Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
> > audio-video.gnu.org.
> 
> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).

I've done the same for GNUnet recently. They are now all in git, which
is not good for videos but it works. It's a starting point to move up
from. Not all recordings were good to include. Like one recording
includes someone being interrupted in their talk in a rude way and
more or less ending the talk in the middle.
So if we have talks like these in Guix, I really hope we don't, I'd
consider it like a bad outtake in a photo series. You can keep the
picture but you don't have to print it and frame it in a book.

> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
> Masters to do that.

I agree.

> Mark, you’re already a member of
> <https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.  ng0, would you like to
> join and give a hand?  Anyone else?

Yes, but keep in mind that I'm still working on reducing the amount of
projects I'm working on. I can contribute to this, but only in small
doses: Uploading videos (or huge binary file collections) works best
while I'm in the university network. It is 20 times faster than what
I have at home.
Also I can start around early january, I need a bigger disk.

Do I need to join this project at savannah, or how does it work?

> Thanks,
> Ludo’.


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Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Hartmut Goebel]

Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>> It should be here:
>>
>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>
+1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.

Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important content.

-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel          | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com               |
| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis:

> Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>>> It should be here:
>>>
>>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
>> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
>> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
>> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>>
> +1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.
>
> Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important content.

sirgazil, WDYT?  :-)

Ludo’.

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[sirgazil]

On 20/12/17 17:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis:
> 
>> Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>>>> It should be here:
>>>>
>>>>    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>>>    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
>>> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
>>> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
>>> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>>>
>> +1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.
>>
>> Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important content.
> 
> sirgazil, WDYT?  :-)

Well, I think we could convert the current Blog item in the website menu 
into a Media item with the following subitems:

   Blog
   Papers
   Screenshots
   Talks

Just like screenshots and blog posts, some talks could be highlighted in 
the home page. These changes could make it easier for people to find 
them, I think.

Note that video preview/thumbnail images will have to be created manually.

Mark H Weaver says:

---
For now, an easy improvement would be to include links to the above URLs
from our Help page.  However, I also found the old list of talks and
papers to be easier to browse than the new method, and I wonder if it
could be restored.

For example, for those who prefer to see a video, it was easy to see at
a glance on the old site which talks included videos, whereas on the new
site one must apparently click on each individual talk to find out which
ones come with videos.  Ditto for slides.
---

We can design the new pages and update current pages so that people 
browsing the summaries of posts, talks, etc. know if the full content of 
a given item contains video, slides, etc.

With these changes, which I think I can start designing right now, I 
think it would not be necessary to list talks and papers in the Help 
section again. What do you think, Mark?

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:

> On 20/12/17 17:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis:
>>
>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>>>>> It should be here:
>>>>>
>>>>>    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>>>>    https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
>>>> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
>>>> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
>>>> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>>>>
>>> +1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.
>>>
>>> Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important content.
>>
>> sirgazil, WDYT?  :-)
>
> Well, I think we could convert the current Blog item in the website
> menu into a Media item with the following subitems:
>
>   Blog
>   Papers
>   Screenshots
>   Talks

I like it; perhaps I’d leave “Blog” as a separate menu item though.

> Just like screenshots and blog posts, some talks could be highlighted
> in the home page. These changes could make it easier for people to
> find them, I think.

Could be nice.

> We can design the new pages and update current pages so that people
> browsing the summaries of posts, talks, etc. know if the full content
> of a given item contains video, slides, etc.
>
> With these changes, which I think I can start designing right now, I
> think it would not be necessary to list talks and papers in the Help
> section again. What do you think, Mark?

I prefer the idea of a “Media” menu, but perhaps you’re suggesting to do
both?  That would be great.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[sirgazil]

On 22/12/17 04:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:
> 
>> On 20/12/17 17:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>>> Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis:
>>>
>>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>>>>>> It should be here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>>>>>     https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
>>>>> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
>>>>> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
>>>>> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>>>>>
>>>> +1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.
>>>>
>>>> Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important content.
>>>
>>> sirgazil, WDYT?  :-)
>>
>> Well, I think we could convert the current Blog item in the website
>> menu into a Media item with the following subitems:
>>
>>    Blog
>>    Papers
>>    Screenshots
>>    Talks
> 
> I like it; perhaps I’d leave “Blog” as a separate menu item though.


I'm fine with that too.


>> Just like screenshots and blog posts, some talks could be highlighted
>> in the home page. These changes could make it easier for people to
>> find them, I think.
> 
> Could be nice.
> 
>> We can design the new pages and update current pages so that people
>> browsing the summaries of posts, talks, etc. know if the full content
>> of a given item contains video, slides, etc.
>>
>> With these changes, which I think I can start designing right now, I
>> think it would not be necessary to list talks and papers in the Help
>> section again. What do you think, Mark?
> 
> I prefer the idea of a “Media” menu, but perhaps you’re suggesting to do
> both?  That would be great.


Yes, I mean that we can have the "Media" menu, but we can also use, for 
example, the concept of post types in the blog (using post metadata), so 
that posts of types "video" or "slides" can have summaries that tell 
people that the post is a video or a slideshow.

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[sirgazil]

On 22/12/17 09:00, sirgazil wrote:
> On 22/12/17 04:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:
>>
>>> On 20/12/17 17:32, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>>>> Hartmut Goebel <h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com> skribis:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 17:15 schrieb ng0:
>>>>>>> It should be here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>>>>>>>     https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/
>>>>>> This doesn't work really well to discover them, like on
>>>>>> a submenu page in the head menu, leading to these pages
>>>>>> or dedicated (non-blog, non-markdown) pages.
>>>>>>
>>>>> +1 for linking them from a more prominent page on the main website.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs are like a diary, but not good for documentation an important 
>>>>> content.
>>>>
>>>> sirgazil, WDYT?  :-)
>>>
>>> Well, I think we could convert the current Blog item in the website
>>> menu into a Media item with the following subitems:
>>>
>>>    Blog
>>>    Papers
>>>    Screenshots
>>>    Talks
>>
>> I like it; perhaps I’d leave “Blog” as a separate menu item though.
> 
> 
> I'm fine with that too.
> 
> 
>>> Just like screenshots and blog posts, some talks could be highlighted
>>> in the home page. These changes could make it easier for people to
>>> find them, I think.
>>
>> Could be nice.
>>
>>> We can design the new pages and update current pages so that people
>>> browsing the summaries of posts, talks, etc. know if the full content
>>> of a given item contains video, slides, etc.
>>>
>>> With these changes, which I think I can start designing right now, I
>>> think it would not be necessary to list talks and papers in the Help
>>> section again. What do you think, Mark?
>>
>> I prefer the idea of a “Media” menu, but perhaps you’re suggesting to do
>> both?  That would be great.


Just read a comment from ng0 on #guix.¹ So, to be clear, going with the 
"Media" idea would mean:

1. Adding the new "Media" menu.
2. Adding a "media" app with new data types for talks and papers, their 
respective instances, and two new pages: Talks and Papers. The 
screenshots page already exists.

The idea is not to create visible links to the existing blog posts that 
contain talks and papers.


> Yes, I mean that we can have the "Media" menu, but we can also use, for 
> example, the concept of post types in the blog (using post metadata), so 
> that posts of types "video" or "slides" can have summaries that tell 
> people that the post is a video or a slideshow.


Now, the use of types for blog posts would be just an additional change 
that could make it easier for people to tell which posts have audio, 
video or any other important media. Since "it was easy to see at
a glance on the old site which talks included videos", I think the same 
could apply to the previews of blog posts that include videos or other 
multimedia content.




1. https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix/2017-12-22#T1585025

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Ludovic,

ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:
>
>> ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
>>> Our website currently shows no videos at all.
>>
>> I thought you were mistaken about this, because there definitely was a
>> list of papers and talks (videos and slides) on our website, but now I
>> can't find it.  I guess it may have been lost in the recent website
>> update.  We should restore that section.
>
> It should be here:
>
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/talks/
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/blog/tags/papers/

Ah, I see.  If neither I nor ng0 could easily find them, I guess that
these aren't very discoverable for those looking to learn about Guix
internals.

For now, an easy improvement would be to include links to the above URLs
from our Help page.  However, I also found the old list of talks and
papers to be easier to browse than the new method, and I wonder if it
could be restored.

For example, for those who prefer to see a video, it was easy to see at
a glance on the old site which talks included videos, whereas on the new
site one must apparently click on each individual talk to find out which
ones come with videos.  Ditto for slides.

I agree that blog entries are a great way to announce the availability
of new talks and papers related to Guix.  However, I think it would also
be nice to include a selection of existing papers and talks summarized
on the help page, to make it easy for a learner to find the ones that
best suit them.

I guess one analogy is that ChangeLogs are useful, but they are no
substitute for a manual.  One is best for reference and for learning the
first time, and the other is useful for keeping up-to-date.

>> Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
>> audio-video.gnu.org.
>
> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).
>
> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
> Masters to do that.
>
> Mark, you’re already a member of
> <https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.

Indeed.  Okay, I'll work on trancoding the videos and uploading them to
audio-video.gnu.org.

       Mark

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Mark H Weaver]

Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:

> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
>
>> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:
>>
>>> Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
>>> audio-video.gnu.org.
>>
>> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
>> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
>> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
>> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).
>>
>> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
>> Masters to do that.
>>
>> Mark, you’re already a member of
>> <https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.
>
> Indeed.  Okay, I'll work on trancoding the videos and uploading them to
> audio-video.gnu.org.

FYI, I started working on this shortly after writing this message, and
currently have 3 videos waiting to upload to audio-video.gnu.org: BOSC
2017, GPCE 2017, and BOB 2017, the last of which required fixing up the
audio track which was very quiet and with one muted channel.

Unfortunately, the upload process is not working for me.  Rsync simply
hangs without doing anything when trying to upload (I waited an hour
once), although I'm able to download the list of existing files via
rsync.

I sent a message to sysadmin@gnu.org on 23 Dec 2017 reporting the
problem, but I've not yet received any response.

       Mark

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Ludovic Courtès]

Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:

> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> writes:
>
>> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
>>
>>> Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis:
>>>
>>>> Many (most?) of the videos linked from our old website were on
>>>> audio-video.gnu.org.
>>>
>>> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
>>> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
>>> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
>>> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).
>>>
>>> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
>>> Masters to do that.
>>>
>>> Mark, you’re already a member of
>>> <https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.
>>
>> Indeed.  Okay, I'll work on trancoding the videos and uploading them to
>> audio-video.gnu.org.
>
> FYI, I started working on this shortly after writing this message, and
> currently have 3 videos waiting to upload to audio-video.gnu.org: BOSC
> 2017, GPCE 2017, and BOB 2017, the last of which required fixing up the
> audio track which was very quiet and with one muted channel.
>
> Unfortunately, the upload process is not working for me.  Rsync simply
> hangs without doing anything when trying to upload (I waited an hour
> once), although I'm able to download the list of existing files via
> rsync.
>
> I sent a message to sysadmin@gnu.org on 23 Dec 2017 reporting the
> problem, but I've not yet received any response.

Thanks for working on it, I hope the FSF sysadmins can fix it soon.
Perhaps it’s time to ping them?

Ludo’.

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Ludo',

Ludovic Courtès wrote on 19/12/17 at 16:41:
> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).
> 
> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
> Masters to do that.

I'm always game to liberate stuff from YouTube. Is there a page
explaining in more detail what's involved?

Kind regards,

T G-R

Re: website: showcase or list videos and slides, sources of all talks

[Ludovic Courtès]

Heya Tobias,

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès wrote on 19/12/17 at 16:41:
>> Yes, and that’s really nice.  The only downside is that we’re lacking a
>> number of videos of conferences that put them on YouTube, and which we’d
>> have to youtube-dl and upload to audio-video.gnu.org (among the recent
>> talks: freenode #live, GPCE, RSE, BOB, etc.).
>> 
>> It would be great if a couple of people could share the duty of Video
>> Masters to do that.
>
> I'm always game to liberate stuff from YouTube. Is there a page
> explaining in more detail what's involved?

I’m only aware of <https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/audio-video>.
Mark, do you have more info?

Ludo’.