From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: ng0 Subject: Re: Guix infrastructure Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:57:47 +0200 Message-ID: <20170709225747.4iu6xepqobbytuwd@abyayala> References: <20170701173604.vjzta4fccjfuqxoy@abyayala> <20170701180111.GA29205@jasmine.lan> <86d19dxg42.fsf@gmail.com> <20170707030042.GD1280@jasmine.lan> <87tw2o8mno.fsf@gnu.org> <20170708235044.kdaig76tc4nn37kp@abyayala> <87y3ryj78l.fsf@elephly.net> <764DD2A8-A20B-4A88-9AF5-445D6E2DDE01@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ic3nq5pqwkiua3at" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49103) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dUL9L-000431-Gk for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:58:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dUL9I-0004ne-At for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:57:59 -0400 Received: from aibo.runbox.com ([91.220.196.211]:42562) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dUL9H-0004le-Vy for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:57:56 -0400 Received: from [10.9.9.212] (helo=mailfront12.runbox.com) by mailtransmit02.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dUL9G-0004WO-82 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:57:54 +0200 Received: from li1411-133.members.linode.com ([139.162.144.133] helo=localhost) by mailfront12.runbox.com with esmtpsa (uid:892961 ) (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) id 1dUL9C-0004zi-1v for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:57:50 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <764DD2A8-A20B-4A88-9AF5-445D6E2DDE01@gmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org --ic3nq5pqwkiua3at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have no time at the moment for a full reply, but I think we got off at the wrong foot Ricardo. I guess you are trying to read between the lines that I tried to be negative about everyones work. I don't have any subtext. What I could've done better is go more into detail. Where did I get the impression of Guix and Guile being intransparent about the bug? I opened a bug, saw one thread on the guile mailinglist, and that's it. So given the fact that I am not omniscient my only logical assumption was that not much happened in public space. The rest was run over, but we had some chats over the weekend and our solution to our side of this is more clear now. It's not yet ready to be published, but I'll keep Guix in the loop. Liam Wigney transcribed 3.4K bytes: > Hey all, >=20 > While I'm aware it was mentioned that server power was mentioned as an is= sue, OpenQA might be of interest for automatic testing.=20 >=20 > > On 9 Jul 2017, at 6:51 pm, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > Hi ng0, > >=20 > >> - master is not stable and it is not being treated as a high priority > >> problem > >=20 > > I don=E2=80=99t know where you get this from and I don=E2=80=99t apprec= iate the > > insinuation that we don=E2=80=99t care. The vast majority of commits to > > =E2=80=9Cmaster=E2=80=9D are totally fine. > >=20 > > As we don=E2=80=99t have the resources for maintaining a stable branch,= =E2=80=9Cmaster=E2=80=9D > > is a best effort. > >=20 > >> - a bug in the compiler which is used in the core of Guix is bad. > >=20 > > We all agree here. I don=E2=80=99t see the point of reiterating it. T= he people > > who can fix it are already working on it =E2=80=94 in their own time an= d in > > *addition* to all the things they regularly do. > >=20 > > Here=E2=80=99s a shout out to Ludo who tirelessly fixes old and new bug= s, > > implements new features, improves performance, deals with GSoC, and > > answers community questions; to Andy Wingo who continuously improves > > Guile performance, implements new Guix services, drafted and implemented > > the potluck faster than I could blink, =E2=80=A6; to Leo and Mark and M= arius who > > keep on top of security issues despite the fact that this is no fun; = =E2=80=94 > > the list goes on and on. > >=20 > > Andy and Ludo are working on the Guile bug already. I don=E2=80=99t se= e how > > this can reasonably result in complaints. > >=20 > >> In my > >> understanding that we could at least try to evade this by reducing the > >> module sizes is met with arguments like "this will be fixed in the > >> future, for now we can only split 1 module the rest has to stay > >> together for semantic and linguistic reasons". > >> If my understanding of the whole situation is wrong this is due to the > >> intransparent dealing with this serious problem and the way my idea > >> to temporarily fix it was met. > >=20 > > =E2=80=9CIntransparent=E2=80=9D? I don=E2=80=99t know what else to say= here. > >=20 > > Breaking up modules is *not* a fix, not even a temporary fix. How would > > this help when Guile never frees memory and the cumulative usage ends up > > being the same? This is something that needs to be fixed in Guile and > > both Andy and Ludo have already spent time to investigate this and come > > up with solutions. > >=20 > > I also wrote that splitting up (gnu packages python) is fine =E2=80=93 = yet I > > have not seen a patch that would do this. There=E2=80=99s only so much= a single > > person can do. > >=20 > > I=E2=80=99m skipping the rest of the complaints in this paragraph, beca= use they > > add nothing new and ignore the late night efforts of people in the Guix > > and Guile communities. > >=20 > >> - Writing system services in Shepherd is hard. > >=20 > > I beg to differ. If you have legitimate concerns please point out the > > sections in the manuals that are unclear and propose changes. > >=20 > >> These are the major issues Guix could fix. > >=20 > > =E2=80=9CGuix=E2=80=9D is people. > >=20 > > Personally, I don=E2=80=99t want to spend more time on this discussion,= because > > I want to get back to getting things done that probably only few people > > will see or notice, but which need to be done anyway. > >=20 > > -- > > Ricardo > >=20 > > GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC > > https://elephly.net > >=20 > >=20 >=20 --=20 ng0 GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 GnuPG: https://n0is.noblogs.org/my-keys https://www.infotropique.org https://krosos.org --ic3nq5pqwkiua3at Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEqIyK3RKYKNfqwC5S4i+bv+40hYgFAllitOYACgkQ4i+bv+40 hYgcbA//fCcdnpHSVWqTSYwidi4u7yQcS7AmmL/osPB+HQ2KGHGJI9sW0B3/veWx Q5sjDr1vU3MQYg0MVjHexS4VrCdLZenbtEy234KObMlqNNlhQ67DuPz6dAkuWN5v M8uQMSosDuzGc9UXyGS5WHfvNiKXyqu+pOaneKLE0nE2tgFmgCCwbC4QPiBoFcQ3 Eo/60iYrTaS1qtpYiQl7JWScqI4q6Qhr3p/2PFndXhaHjMytwWGWmCFT7Z89rKNx VVugJbvmuN1kQe2XwXMLEJS6EgipvcVqtOEyE0hpUslzceonWUd2IbnIyUhEBaG1 eHmtGReXWRKmC3/YBe27LZBgDO3z0dRAsjQ20beudFy448GCF5szOKoLDLNciUGV HcaxqVhczL3COarGMIvvYUTiNzUhFY+ctImQOKaT2SAiND7Q7MmfRGCK3d5LHg3D NTrAWAp0oTIaB9SZe8cmF36OMB8FEzV3N9tIRLzMNP7Iu5nLoQkyKxG5l2PoK6U/ Vtk87uoYVrrEZpTw29+Jlt3u8MkeeRzLTnvi62i4wv23OukDqQTYD0BnryqTJXce Y/GMRRujAfX8bqT4w9StIbBUTpBMcAUptsjnD9fGlHkVGL7dBT7qgBz9Y/1xUs8N X1yVCzfbgcrRWbNwY2/CiIIQAl9QNcDmvTjFMiVF6r4dQ+FLtG8= =QdoL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ic3nq5pqwkiua3at--