From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Leo Famulari Subject: bug#27264: gnome-shell-3.24.2 consistently dies during initialization Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:08:42 -0400 Message-ID: <20170608170842.GB27164@jasmine> References: <87o9u13e4i.fsf@netris.org> <8760g8t769.fsf@gnu.org> <87shjbwjdc.fsf@netris.org> <87ink6zo19.fsf@gnu.org> <87vao6poh7.fsf@netris.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49420) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0vj-0006ep-TN for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:09:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0vf-0007YB-Ku for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:09:07 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:60904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0ve-0007Y2-Sx for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:09:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ0ve-0005mw-Ef for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:09:02 -0400 Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-Message-ID: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87vao6poh7.fsf@netris.org> List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+gcggb-bug-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" To: Mark H Weaver Cc: 27264@debbugs.gnu.org --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 10:01:56AM -0400, Mark H Weaver wrote: > I'm annoyed that I've been forced to either use a different desktop > environment in the meantime or else sacrifice security updates. I would > never consider pushing such a major update to master without testing it > first. I'm astonished that anyone thinks that this is acceptable > behavior. >=20 > I'm sorry to be harsh, but I feel justified to air my grievances because > I believe this is the kind of event that will cause GNOME users to label > GuixSD an experimental distribution that's not suitable for one's > primary work machine, but are too polite to complain. Let me be the > canary in the coal mine. I agree with your points. For complex interactive software, someone must test it by actually using it. And we should remember that the master branch is supposed to always be "deployable", and choose to test breaking changes on other branches. > While it's true that users can boot into an older generation of their > system in an emergency, and that's a *great* comfort, in general it's > not an acceptable fallback because it entails sacrificing security > updates. I'm concerned that our fallback feature has caused people to > become quite careless with breaking things on our master branch. It's true, we could not even think of pushing untested or lightly-tested changes if we couldn't roll-back. But, if we want to 1) receive updates to big software suites like GNOME, and we want to 2) avoid breakage on the master branch, we *need* more testers. As somebody who has helped with a few of these branches so far, the lack of assistance with testing and bug fixes is a major problem. I rarely feel as confident as I'd like before pushing the merge. More than once I've merged a major branch with the impression that only myself and 1 or 2 other people have actually deployed it on their workstation or in a staging environment that precedes production. There is a large number of contributors adding new packages or working on features, but almost nobody helps test big changes or other boring and tedious maintenance tasks. So, those things suffer, and we end up testing on the master branch. I don't have any potential solutions in mind. As we are mostly volunteers with limited time and computing resources, we can only do so much. Indeed, I had to sit out this staging cycle due to lack of free time and computing resources. --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEsFFZSPHn08G5gDigJkb6MLrKfwgFAlk5hJcACgkQJkb6MLrK fwhm3BAAsp6r4U0zbR37daW6n6xZk2FlXB2he/HvuI9xy7uZ2br7Qfs9rT3UYAae BDWeKqiafqQBMCkXlbZSTiBTrxjO/U+ar76Uhdbeq4nR4QYcZVuTty3nRdCK2+DP W+gZ6Vz0zzGPGmVGz5oq8naA4Ja3glJ7pF+Jeshsk4N0ojZLVqsRo3ZB6LR1IO4k 481Y2qup8NMC8s+cdiz/G2XKlltphogdt8r7R7ROK95mBa39neMky41K4NzZpFl/ XzjydQaSFdPFu2U30P5hYnuJ3J/Yh9RvoMuc9TlK6y77DMqr0UXgpep8+385GApe o3zbVXy0M/szXgwzYT29mBVnbgob4xbxB4nZGzFDjVOKkCcJQHeL8jRpFTFTizHo 9Kdkt1gCCZ2IxBmbp3VRscIQmcG+ECwQa4/S96IlImTBNn/x4izXyQRPdVMSFM6X WC/J3InwcLEtekeJVvObuisXDJ1jbT2zARkNqFEnjXs1aPjSopGC4R+AZatOBOoX 62afNhxywqZxH0yDT5llBddp4efUw9cWmQrcFC9J8QFl1Su0ONowwHS4hfT6eisi 6CqK6R4CgJHnJBLpZJhAABiN4KOfranvCFP7XIZLuGrAJWd64ii4wMDVyIupQ3X2 Q9PQKef5iRUSOjiOa0DuukgdqdjQBKFW12wocfL4VxZyEPlzMW0= =kmA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8--