From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Jean Louis Subject: Re: MAME emulator is giving incentive to use non-free software Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:30:40 +0200 Message-ID: <20160329073040.GA20807@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20160328215516.GA27719@protected.rcdrun.com> <20160329002620.GB6484@jookia-eeepc.Home> <20160329044242.GA1239@protected.rcdrun.com> <20160329062711.GA17752@jookia-eeepc.Home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40748) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ako8B-0003q6-41 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 03:32:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ako87-0004Zd-Tl for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 03:32:03 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:48217) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ako87-0004ZX-N9 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 03:31:59 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160329062711.GA17752@jookia-eeepc.Home> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Jookia <166291@gmail.com> Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hello, - when a package definition includes "Homepage to: http://mamedev.org/" then GuixSD is endorsing and referencing non-free software for which MAME was made, while you maybe refer to software package alone. - if developers include MAME, WINE and other emulators that are basically foundation to run non-free software, they will be definitely dividing people, just as non-free software is dividing people. Let us see example of "dividing people": https://trisquel.info/en/forum/can-i-get-games-wine-working-trisquel A user have seen there is Wine in Trisquel, and of course, asks for support. The answer is: "We won't assist you in running proprietary software of any kind on this forum, it would violate our Community Guidelines." -- which is clearly dividing people. It is rejecting the user. People get involved into discussion of running or not running non-free software: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/some-wonderings-wine-and-playonlinux The guy has used Wine to write documentation, but he could as well then use it without inclusion in the distribution: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/wine-even-useful-anything-other-proprietary-software There is whole list of supposedly "free software" that runs on Wine: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?bIsQueue=false&bIsRejected=false&sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&sReturnTo=&iId=0&iItemsPerPage=25&iPage=1&iappVersion-licenseOp0=5&sappVersion-licenseData0=Open+Source&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true&iItemsPerPage=200 However such list is deceptive. If user follows the development of Wine, user is going to see or browse package definitions, will see the Wine website and then numerous numerous pointers to non-free software: https://appdb.winehq.org/index.php (let me know if you fail to see the thumbnails of non-free games in the Platinum list or any of the thumbnails in the Gold list or Silver list). It is free software package that is made to support non-free packages. It should not be included in free software distributions, because free software distributions shall not point, reference and otherwise distribute software that helps the majority of users to run non-free software. Inclusion of homepage of Wine in the package definition is endorsing platforms (Wine) to run non-free software. Who wish to run it, is free. Software is free, right? But why would that need to be included in any free software distribution?! The reason is: - it is going to definitely reject people, and cause community support problems. Look into the future. There will be 100, 500, 5000 and 50,000 users in the future, maybe 100,000 and later million users. - when thinking of future, users will come who have downloaded MAME, they will discuss on forums, in mailing lists, in bug reports, something like: "How can I run this ROM?" or "How can I ran World of Warcraft?" -- and what are you going to tell people then? Please, go elsewhere, because we don't run free software and don't give support for free software. That is dividing people. Obviously Wine/Mame and any other emulator is problematic for future of the communities. I cannot understand the rationalization and justifications based on the single fact how WINE/MAME or other similar emulators are free software by themselves, and that is the only reason to include them, but let us avoid all the reality about that, that those platforms are being developed for the major purpose of running non-free software. It does not play alone. It is hypocrisy. Jean Louis