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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel , 53224 <53224@debbugs.gnu.org> Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1642442300; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=zgFBI1IL4DKCzwOIjo4Np6MEqxv7MDTFA+hgxORZoFg=; b=gQgqkySDFBY9VKOxgiQcynv3ejlRtvTskMQr+CaGqg80U08Fv6z0SsaxW2WxAty/gSeXDJ BwI7kwdIHAWRDEmwwfb1yVDv5oileeLaumNVdiitVGLNZkiSGkjaAW3/QVDUr1E/0QDYwa d69yijdLoogrLa/S/TxdTsFDS/xCNJVNMGxvuv5fKomY1Uj99DtQZbRIgYxRPHB2aoowf7 F/bPITLh63/TNcrIYo+4+9EaV8ZhxAjZave25J9f54A/CjM4tMF88N6LI8YLpzPkrjXD8p c4fkBhn0q217+Ip8Q/0NMSkpUGP7RkQ3mxOBIzfSGkOnPNPZEI4r1uYeFK5/eg== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1642442300; a=rsa-sha256; cv=fail; b=JfAp3Bsvl46LhfsFx2aoC9aBq05d0b+2R+S9ZJbvoc1D2lSB98G2MLiKksbAvaGW6YSxzq 796Hm8BIgDuzHFxQEnfiazS+Q01HhJbSohXZEJ7Ows9lMkBEuO0rQMOj3ynrmyOgoI/2X6 lbcWUDaYM9M/jJ1CkWjNgFfhuPw/XDyKbv5yehbH39UWRu7ieBIVeLwIityAcjI398Ytpy LeOSVwIQ1597o59JJifwmNqExIvzZSCHcva2RO2r3JPWN+hSYdoM7wonPoE7SaFIwdg7bV GKNw58ICVzloLt128v547LZRF/Lwb4bBt3EIYAlKk2K5lyxNKE8UysdMIQsiOA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=excalamus.com header.s=zmail header.b=XrFMvEwf; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=excalamus.com header.s=zmail header.b=XrFMvEwf; arc=reject ("signature check failed: fail, {[1] = sig:zohomail.com:reject}"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 08D9D10E66 X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: d38+1k93SRsJ ---- On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:16:28 -0500 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote ---- > > This person spent a lot of time trying to understand the situation and > > writing the blog post, but their understanding is still rather weak. >=20 > To be fair, the person didn=E2=80=99t look for =E2=80=9Cprofile=E2=80=9D= in the manual. I=E2=80=99m not > blaming=E2=80=94mentioning it to clarify what it is we=E2=80=99re trying= to fix. With all respect, I *did* look at "profile" in the manual. I spent a lot of= time looking and trying to understand things. I hear you say you're not t= rying to blame me and I trust that's not your intent. However, what was sa= id *does* blame me. It says what I did and did not do, independent of real= ity: you are not me and you were not present. Unfortunately, what was said= carries all sorts of judgments and implications (ouch!) which, opposite to= your intent, is not fair.=20 I see you want clarification on what we're trying to fix. May I suggest ins= tead asking, "What problem are we trying to solve?" I see several problems beyond what I've already said. However, I'll try to= stick to just one that I encountered with the documentation. Leo is certa= inly working toward something specific which I suspect is different from wh= at I see. I'll let them speak for themselves. I'm going to assume that you probably wanted to ask something like, "It loo= ks to me like the manual adequately explains profiles. But, since I'm the = main architect of this system, maybe I have knowledge that someone new does= n't have. Person who is confused, are you able to say where you're confused= ?" I would reply: There are several places I've been confused. Let me give you a specific exa= mple. The manual has at least four places that "profile" is defined: 1. [[https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/en/html_node/Getting-Started.html#Gett= ing-Started][(guix) Getting Started]] says, #+begin_quote "A profile is a directory containing installed packages" #+end_quote 2. [[https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-package.htm= l#Invoking-guix-package][(guix) Invoking guix package]] says, #+begin_quote "a directory of installed packages" #+end_quote and 3, yet in the guix package options: #+begin_quote '-p PROFILE' Use PROFILE instead of the user's default profile. PROFILE must be the name of a file that will be created upon completion. Concretely, PROFILE will be a mere symbolic link ("symlink") pointing to the actual profile where packages are installed: #+begin_example $ guix install hello -p ~/code/my-profile ... $ ~/code/my-profile/bin/hello Hello, world! #+end_example #+end_quote Elsewhere in (guix) Features is a 4th which says, #+begin_quote users have their own =E2=80=9Cprofile=E2=80=9D, which points to the package= s that they actually want to use #+end_quote So, is the profile a directory or a pointer file (e.g. symlink)? I tend to= think of a directory as a container, like a manilla folder that contains p= apers. To me, something that points is a file that contains a path to anot= her location. I see that I used the word "contains" to describe both file = and directory, so maybe that's a sign to me I'm missing something there. Regardless, I hope you can see that it's not always clear whether a profile= is a directory or a file. Yes, on Unix-like systems, directories are file= s. But Guix throws an error if you call =3Dguix package -p=3D with a direct= ory: : guix package: error: rename-file: Is a directory If you follow the symlinks, the profile is indeed a directory; it is a dire= ctory in the store. But the way users interact with profiles is GUIX_PROFILE=3D"$HOME/.guix-profile" . "$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile" which is a file. And there are a bunch of symlinks in general. Those appear= to be implementation details. But I think it's reasonable to say the abstr= action isn't airtight and that, as a user, I have to interact with the impl= ementation details at some level. Certainly at the documentation level.=20 Leo is 100% correct that my understanding is still rather weak. I'll do my = best despite that to help make the documentation better.