* how does antioxidant work? @ 2022-09-08 1:17 jgart 2022-09-08 10:03 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: jgart @ 2022-09-08 1:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Guix Devel; +Cc: Maxime Devos Hi Maxime, how does antioxidant build system for rust work at a high level? https://notabug.org/maximed/cargoless-rust-experiments all best, jgart ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: how does antioxidant work? 2022-09-08 1:17 how does antioxidant work? jgart @ 2022-09-08 10:03 ` Maxime Devos 2022-09-10 14:50 ` jgart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2022-09-08 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jgart, Guix Devel [-- Attachment #1.1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1275 bytes --] On 08-09-2022 03:17, jgart wrote: > Hi Maxime, > > how does antioxidant build system for rust work at a high level? > > https://notabug.org/maximed/cargoless-rust-experiments > > all best, There are two parts: * The actual build system (antioxidant.scm) -- it reads the Cargo.toml to see what the dependencies are, looks for the (compiled!) dependencies in the 'inputs' and 'native-inputs', runs build.rs, compiles it (with 'rustc') and install the compiled result (sources aren't installed). It also runs tests. * The cargo -> antioxidant transformation code. The procedure vitaminate/auto* takes a package, and rewrites it to fit with antioxidant -- one of these is moving #:cargo-inputs into 'inputs', and (recursively) rewriting these inputs. Sometimes phases need to be adjusted, sometimes for cargo there was #:skip-build? but antioxidant doesn't do that, and it runs tests, so it sometimes turns out tests need to be disabled. (This will have to later be changed to _source code_ transformations, maybe with "guix style", to integrate things into Guix proper) There are also some other small things with some checks for vendoring, #:test-options Greetings, Maxime. [-- Attachment #1.1.1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1887 bytes --] [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: how does antioxidant work? 2022-09-08 10:03 ` Maxime Devos @ 2022-09-10 14:50 ` jgart 2022-09-10 16:17 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: jgart @ 2022-09-10 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Maxime Devos; +Cc: Guix Devel On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:03:36 +0200 Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> wrote: > There are also some other small things with some checks for vendoring, > #:test-options Cool! Will this build system support rust development with guix or it's only for packaging end user rust apps? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: how does antioxidant work? 2022-09-10 14:50 ` jgart @ 2022-09-10 16:17 ` Maxime Devos 2022-09-10 17:38 ` jgart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2022-09-10 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jgart; +Cc: Guix Devel [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1613 bytes --] On 10-09-2022 16:50, jgart wrote: > On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 12:03:36 +0200 Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> wrote: >> There are also some other small things with some checks for vendoring, >> #:test-options > > Cool! Will this build system support rust development with guix or it's > only for packaging end user rust apps? You can already do things like $ guix build -f file-containing-a-definition-of-the-rust-library.scm As how antioxidant treats dependencies is similar to, say, python-build-system and gnu-build-system, the previously compiled dependencies of the library will be reused. Unlike C, the configure scripts (‘build.rs’ in Rust), when they exist, they do very little work. For many libraries, the compile time is usually short (on the order of, say, a most dozen seconds (*), at least on my local computer and not counting tests) (**). As such, a ‘setup package.scm to use a recursive local-file as origin, modify source files, do "guix build -f package.scm"’ should be feasible (**). I wouldn't know how it compares to Cargo though, I never used that. (*) Note: I haven't actually timed it. Also, if you adjust the optimisation level to something lower and non-LTO, it should in theory decrease. (**) With some exceptions, e.g. rust-proptest takes long to compile. Caveat: the ‘examples’ and ‘benchmarks’ functionality is unlikely to be implemented by me (even though they may be useful for development) as they don't bring much value to Guix packaging. [insert the usual patches welcome here] Greetings, Maxime. [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: how does antioxidant work? 2022-09-10 16:17 ` Maxime Devos @ 2022-09-10 17:38 ` jgart 2022-09-10 18:15 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: jgart @ 2022-09-10 17:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Maxime Devos; +Cc: Guix Devel On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:17:50 +0200 Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> wrote: > > Caveat: the ‘examples’ and ‘benchmarks’ functionality is unlikely to be > implemented by me (even though they may be useful for development) as > they don't bring much value to Guix packaging. [insert the usual patches > welcome here] I'm mostly wondering how we would get the rust community to adopt our rust tooling for serious rust development. Do we expect rust people to use Guix for developing rust projects without cargo? Are there other package managers in the rust community that people are using besides cargo? I realize cargo has issues. I don't have a comprehensive list of them but I'm curious to find out more. Maxime, what have you researched with regards to cargo issues or where should I start studying up on that to get familiar with why antioxidant is needed? Is there a thread that introduces the need for a new rust build system and why? all best, jgart ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: how does antioxidant work? 2022-09-10 17:38 ` jgart @ 2022-09-10 18:15 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2022-09-10 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jgart; +Cc: Guix Devel [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3650 bytes --] On 10-09-2022 19:38, jgart wrote: > On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:17:50 +0200 Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> wrote: >> >> Caveat: the ‘examples’ and ‘benchmarks’ functionality is unlikely to be >> implemented by me (even though they may be useful for development) as >> they don't bring much value to Guix packaging. [insert the usual patches >> welcome here] > > I'm mostly wondering how we would get the rust community to adopt our rust tooling for serious rust development. > > Do we expect rust people to use Guix for developing rust projects without cargo? A next step I had in mind, was to separate some functionality of antioxidant-build-system into a Guix-independent 'antioxidant' Guile program, that can also be used by other distro's. Then Rust people could do things like: $ apt-get install rust-foo ... $ antioxidant configure $ antioxidant build $ antioxidant check $ antioxidant install or $ guix shell -D some-app $ antioxidant configure $ antioxidant build $ antioxidant check $ antioxidant install or whatever. Basically, separate 'package management' from 'building software' -- the former needs the latter, and the latter doesn't really care how packages are managed as long as it is told where to find the dependencies. I don't think we should expect rust people to use Guix or antioxidant though -- it would be nice if rust people found antioxidant and Guix useful, but if they use Cargo, that's fine too for us. (Not recommended though, because of the usual problems with single-language package managers and their registries.) > Are there other package managers in the rust community that people are using besides cargo? Maybe bazel: https://github.com/mrboatsman/rust_bazel_hello_world (seems to be a mix of a package manager and a build system). Also maybe crane: https://github.com/ipetkov/crane/blob/ > > I realize cargo has issues. I don't have a comprehensive list of them but I'm curious to find out more. > > Maxime, what have you researched with regards to cargo issues or where > should I start studying up on that to get familiar with why antioxidant > is needed? > > Is there a thread that introduces the need for a new rust build system and why? There are: * https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2022-03/msg00269.html * https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2022-08/msg00194.html but I don't think they are good introductions. Anyway, for Guix, some of the main issues are: * overly picky versions requirements -- the rust-cbindgen-VERSION crates are (at least, sufficiently) backwards-compatible. * dependencies like "rust-windows-..." must be packaged even when not compiling for Windows. * cargo is inefficient -- if you compile FOO which depends on BAR having the feature "a" enabled, and later compile FOO2 which wants the feature "b", then IIUC FOO2 is compiled twice, once with "a" and then with "b". How about compiling it once instead, with both "a" and "b". * cargo-build-system is inefficient -- if you do "guix build this-app", and then do "guix build that-app", then the compiled dependencies of "this-app" cannot be reused for "that-app". Cargo does not seem to have an option to ... not do that. Even if it did, there is the previous issue with 'features'. (Crane seems to somehow tell Cargo how to not do that, but it still appears to have the feature problem and it heavily depends on crates.io or Cargo.lock, not really suitable for distros). Greetings, Maxime. [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-09-10 18:16 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2022-09-08 1:17 how does antioxidant work? jgart 2022-09-08 10:03 ` Maxime Devos 2022-09-10 14:50 ` jgart 2022-09-10 16:17 ` Maxime Devos 2022-09-10 17:38 ` jgart 2022-09-10 18:15 ` Maxime Devos
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.