* personal communications server @ 2019-07-19 4:42 Quiliro Ordóñez 2019-08-05 19:28 ` Quiliro Ordóñez 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Quiliro Ordóñez @ 2019-07-19 4:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix Hello Guix: I know this has been discussed in the past in this: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-05/msg00210.html and on another thread on Guix mailing lists. But I cannot find any information past 2017. I have read about: https://freedombox.org/ https://freedombone.org/ But the first does not have an email server and I could not manage to get the second working. On the other hand, how can a communication system be secure if it cannot be audited? The only option for auditability is a reproducible system that has the source code available. That plus freedom is only currently obtainable on Guix. Is there any current discussion or ideas about this? -- Saluton. Quiliro Ordóñez Do you prefer speaking English? Vous voulez parler Français? Çu vi volas paroli Esperanton? -- Saluton. Quiliro Ordonez All information received in subsequent emails and the associated attachments is considered public with rights to use, modify, redistribute and distribute modified versions, regardless of any previous or future notice. If you do not agree with these terms, do not send me information which you do intend to abide to under such permissions as stated I have above. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-07-19 4:42 personal communications server Quiliro Ordóñez @ 2019-08-05 19:28 ` Quiliro Ordóñez 2019-08-05 21:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Quiliro Ordóñez @ 2019-08-05 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix PING El 2019-07-18 23:42, Quiliro Ordóñez escribió: > Hello Guix: > > I know this has been discussed in the past in this: > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-05/msg00210.html > and on another thread on Guix mailing lists. But I cannot find any > information past 2017. > > I have read about: > https://freedombox.org/ > https://freedombone.org/ > But the first does not have an email server and I could not manage to > get the second working. > > On the other hand, how can a communication system be secure if it cannot > be audited? The only option for auditability is a reproducible system > that has the source code available. That plus freedom is only currently > obtainable on Guix. > > Is there any current discussion or ideas about this? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-05 19:28 ` Quiliro Ordóñez @ 2019-08-05 21:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 1:21 ` quiliro 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Ricardo Wurmus @ 2019-08-05 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Quiliro Ordóñez; +Cc: help-guix Hi Quiliro, > PING It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is. We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what you’re asking. -- Ricardo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-05 21:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus @ 2019-08-06 1:21 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 6:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 8:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: quiliro @ 2019-08-06 1:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió: > > Hi Quiliro, > >> PING Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response. > It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is. I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and that it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a quest of making a personal communications server. > We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what > you’re asking. I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 1:21 ` quiliro @ 2019-08-06 6:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 14:25 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 8:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-06 6:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix, quiliro Le 6 août 2019 03:21:37 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit : >El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió: >> >> Hi Quiliro, >> >>> PING > >Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response. > >> It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is. > >I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system >init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and >that >it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am >asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a >quest >of making a personal communications server. > >> We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what >> you’re asking. > >I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'. Hi quiliro, Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail services available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's what I use to send this very email :) That said, we could have more system examples for different use cases. We could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for instance. Is that what you're asking for? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 6:45 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-06 14:25 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 14:56 ` Julien Lepiller 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: quiliro @ 2019-08-06 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix Hi Julien, Thank you for your response. > Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with > freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail services > available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's what I > use to send this very email :) As per https://freedombone.net/ : Freedombone Software for an internet of people Mainstream software is so broken and the organizations that develop it so untrustworthy that we are reaching a breaking point. So you want to run your own internet services? Email, chat, VoIP, web sites, file synchronization, wikis, blogs, social networks, media hosting, backups, VPN. Freedombone is a home server system which enables you to self-host all of these things from your place of residence (not a data center). You can run Freedombone on an old laptop or single board computer. As per https://freedombone.net/apps.html : This system comes in three versions: Standard server version: for the ordinary internet using conventional domain names Onion only server version: uses onion addresses. Doesn't need a domain name or port forwarding Mesh peer/client version: off-grid autonomous operation, separate from the internet. No servers. 1 Server apps These apps are available on all server versions of the system, either via clearnet or onion addresses. Akaunting - A web based accounts system for small businesses or freelancers. BabyBuddy - Helps caregivers track sleep, feedings, diaper changes, and tummy time. Bludit - Databaseless blogging system. CryptPad - Collaborative documents, presentations, votes and drawing. Datserver - Seed dat protocol files from your server to make them always accessible. DLNA - Play media on UPNP/DLNA supported devices Dokuwiki - A databaseless wiki system. EteSync - End-to-end encrypted sync of calendar and contacts between devices. Etherpad - Collaborative document creation. Federated wiki - A new approach to creating wiki content. Gogs - Lightweight git project hosting system. HTMLy - Databaseless blogging system. IRC Server - Chat server with bouncer. Icecast media stream - Make your own internet radio station. KanBoard - Simple kanban system for managing projects or TODO lists. Koel - Access your music collection from any internet connected device. Lychee - Make your photo albums available on the web. Mailpile - Modern email client which supports GPG encryption. Mumble - VoIP and text chat system. NextCloud - File storage, chat and video conferencing. PeerTube - Peer-to-peer video hosting. Pi-Hole - Block web ads at the DNS level. PrivateBin - Pastebin where the server has zero knowledge of the content. Rocketchat - Non-federated chat server (x86 systems only). Smol RSS - Minimal RSS reader. Syncthing - Synchronise files across all of your devices. Turtl - Privately create and share notes and images. XMPP - Chat server. 2 Standard server apps These apps are not available on the onion only versions, since they can't currently be onion routed. Friendica - Federated social network system. Hubzilla - Web publishing platform with social network like features. Zap - Nomadic social network server 3 Mesh apps CryptPad - Collaborate on documents, presentations, votes and drawing while off the grid IPFS public folder - Share files/audio/video on the mesh. Kdenlive - Edit videos Pelican - Static blogging with a large choice of themes qTox - The main text, VoIP and video chat application Shotwell - Manage and edit photos > That said, we could have more system examples for different use cases. We > could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for > instance. Is that what you're asking for? Both Freedombox and Freedombone are made to help administration be easy and to have all users have all services in order to avoid repeatedly creating users and administrating them for each service. I chose Freedombone and not Freedombox because the former has the intention of making it work exclusively with libre software, it also has mail server and has more applications than the former. I do not know much about Freedombox. On Freedombone, each service must be activated or else it is not installed. The only default service is email. I think that the services Google offers would be enough for most users and all applications that Freedombone offers are not necessary. But I think that it is good that they are available to choose for different opinions of administration. Freedombone is just Debian plus the above mentioned programs installed via bash scripts. Is it possible to make something similar on Guix? Could we import the bash scripts and is it even necessary? Thank you for you input. Quiliro ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 14:25 ` quiliro @ 2019-08-06 14:56 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 21:48 ` quiliro 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-06 14:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix, quiliro Le 6 août 2019 16:25:18 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit : >Hi Julien, > >Thank you for your response. > >> Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with >> freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail >services >> available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's >what I >> use to send this very email :) > >As per https://freedombone.net/ : > >Freedombone > >Software for an internet of people > >Mainstream software is so broken and the organizations that develop it >so >untrustworthy that we are reaching a breaking point. So you want to run >your own internet services? Email, chat, VoIP, web sites, file >synchronization, wikis, blogs, social networks, media hosting, backups, >VPN. Freedombone is a home server system which enables you to self-host >all of these things from your place of residence (not a data center). >You >can run Freedombone on an old laptop or single board computer. > > >As per https://freedombone.net/apps.html : > > This system comes in three versions: > > Standard server version: for the ordinary internet using conventional >domain names > Onion only server version: uses onion addresses. Doesn't need a domain >name or port forwarding > Mesh peer/client version: off-grid autonomous operation, separate from >the internet. No servers. > >1 Server apps > >These apps are available on all server versions of the system, either >via >clearnet or onion addresses. >Akaunting - A web based accounts system for small businesses or >freelancers. >BabyBuddy - Helps caregivers track sleep, feedings, diaper changes, and >tummy time. >Bludit - Databaseless blogging system. >CryptPad - Collaborative documents, presentations, votes and drawing. >Datserver - Seed dat protocol files from your server to make them >always >accessible. >DLNA - Play media on UPNP/DLNA supported devices >Dokuwiki - A databaseless wiki system. >EteSync - End-to-end encrypted sync of calendar and contacts between >devices. >Etherpad - Collaborative document creation. >Federated wiki - A new approach to creating wiki content. >Gogs - Lightweight git project hosting system. >HTMLy - Databaseless blogging system. >IRC Server - Chat server with bouncer. >Icecast media stream - Make your own internet radio station. >KanBoard - Simple kanban system for managing projects or TODO lists. >Koel - Access your music collection from any internet connected device. >Lychee - Make your photo albums available on the web. >Mailpile - Modern email client which supports GPG encryption. >Mumble - VoIP and text chat system. >NextCloud - File storage, chat and video conferencing. >PeerTube - Peer-to-peer video hosting. >Pi-Hole - Block web ads at the DNS level. >PrivateBin - Pastebin where the server has zero knowledge of the >content. >Rocketchat - Non-federated chat server (x86 systems only). >Smol RSS - Minimal RSS reader. >Syncthing - Synchronise files across all of your devices. >Turtl - Privately create and share notes and images. >XMPP - Chat server. > >2 Standard server apps > >These apps are not available on the onion only versions, since they >can't >currently be onion routed. >Friendica - Federated social network system. >Hubzilla - Web publishing platform with social network like features. >Zap - Nomadic social network server > >3 Mesh apps > >CryptPad - Collaborate on documents, presentations, votes and drawing >while off the grid >IPFS public folder - Share files/audio/video on the mesh. >Kdenlive - Edit videos >Pelican - Static blogging with a large choice of themes >qTox - The main text, VoIP and video chat application >Shotwell - Manage and edit photos > > >> That said, we could have more system examples for different use >cases. We >> could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for >> instance. Is that what you're asking for? > >Both Freedombox and Freedombone are made to help administration be easy >and to have all users have all services in order to avoid repeatedly >creating users and administrating them for each service. I chose >Freedombone and not Freedombox because the former has the intention of >making it work exclusively with libre software, it also has mail server >and has more applications than the former. > >I do not know much about Freedombox. On Freedombone, each service must >be >activated or else it is not installed. The only default service is >email. >I think that the services Google offers would be enough for most users >and >all applications that Freedombone offers are not necessary. But I think >that it is good that they are available to choose for different >opinions >of administration. > >Freedombone is just Debian plus the above mentioned programs installed >via >bash scripts. Is it possible to make something similar on Guix? Could >we >import the bash scripts and is it even necessary? > >Thank you for you input. >Quiliro I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their services: (define domain "mydomain.org") ; and other common configuration options … (operating-system … (services (cons* ;; Uncomment for email ;(dovecot-service …) … ;; Uncomment for cgit ; (cgit-service …) … ))) And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, but can still tweak and change things. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 14:56 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 21:51 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 21:52 ` L p R n d n 2019-08-06 21:48 ` quiliro 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Ricardo Wurmus @ 2019-08-06 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Julien Lepiller; +Cc: quiliro, help-guix Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes: > I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I > read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose > their services: > > (define domain "mydomain.org") > ; and other common configuration options > … > (operating-system > … > (services > (cons* > ;; Uncomment for email > ;(dovecot-service …) > … > ;; Uncomment for cgit > ; (cgit-service …) > … > ))) > > And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, > but can still tweak and change things. Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system configuration. The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or disable certain services. -- Ricardo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus @ 2019-08-06 21:51 ` quiliro 2019-08-07 9:40 ` L p R n d n 2019-08-06 21:52 ` L p R n d n 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: quiliro @ 2019-08-06 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: help-guix El Mar, 6 de Agosto de 2019, 1:19 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió: > Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system > configuration. The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or > disable certain services. What do you mean by "a proceedure"? Is it a definition that would activate or deactivate groups of services? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 21:51 ` quiliro @ 2019-08-07 9:40 ` L p R n d n 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: L p R n d n @ 2019-08-07 9:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: quiliro; +Cc: help-guix Hello, quiliro@riseup.net writes: > El Mar, 6 de Agosto de 2019, 1:19 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió: > >> Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system >> configuration. The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or >> disable certain services. > > What do you mean by "a proceedure"? Is it a definition that would activate > or deactivate groups of services? If I'm not mistaken, a procedure in Guile is simply what you would call a function in most other languages. So what I suppose Ricardo is talking about is a procedure that would output a preconfigured os. I've already thought about that kind of "configuration helpers" and I find the idea quite appealing. We could go from "activate x services" to "I want a desktop operating system with bluetooth" ot "I want a server with mail and Tor". The procedure would deal with ports matching etc Have a nice day, L p r n d n ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 21:51 ` quiliro @ 2019-08-06 21:52 ` L p R n d n 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: L p R n d n @ 2019-08-06 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ricardo Wurmus; +Cc: quiliro, help-guix Hello, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes: > Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes: > >> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I >> read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose >> their services: >> >> (define domain "mydomain.org") >> ; and other common configuration options >> … >> (operating-system >> … >> (services >> (cons* >> ;; Uncomment for email >> ;(dovecot-service …) >> … >> ;; Uncomment for cgit >> ; (cgit-service …) >> … >> ))) >> >> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, >> but can still tweak and change things. > > Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system > configuration. The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or > disable certain services. Just being curious here, why a whole operating system configuration? Why not just a list of services? Thanks, L p r n d n > -- > Ricardo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 14:56 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus @ 2019-08-06 21:48 ` quiliro 2019-08-07 7:00 ` Julien Lepiller 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: quiliro @ 2019-08-06 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix > I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I read, > we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their > services: > > (define domain "mydomain.org") > ; and other common configuration options > … > (operating-system > … > (services > (cons* > ;; Uncomment for email > ;(dovecot-service …) > … > ;; Uncomment for cgit > ; (cgit-service …) > … > ))) > > And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, but > can still tweak and change things. I like this. The users could also be included on this configuration. I am not sure if users on the system are used also as users of the different services. It would be nice to have something that would avoid configuration file errors. Maybe some test that would review syntax on Emacs. Maybe the best would be that each service would be run by a different user in order to make the system more secure. Just ideas. Q ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 21:48 ` quiliro @ 2019-08-07 7:00 ` Julien Lepiller 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-07 7:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix, quiliro Le 6 août 2019 23:48:29 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit : >> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I >read, >> we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their >> services: >> >> (define domain "mydomain.org") >> ; and other common configuration options >> … >> (operating-system >> … >> (services >> (cons* >> ;; Uncomment for email >> ;(dovecot-service …) >> … >> ;; Uncomment for cgit >> ; (cgit-service …) >> … >> ))) >> >> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, >but >> can still tweak and change things. > >I like this. > >The users could also be included on this configuration. I am not sure >if >users on the system are used also as users of the different services. > >It would be nice to have something that would avoid configuration file >errors. Maybe some test that would review syntax on Emacs. > >Maybe the best would be that each service would be run by a different >user >in order to make the system more secure. > >Just ideas. >Q It's already the case in guix: for instance, we have a mariadb that runs under the mariadb user. The service definition itself extends the list of system users, so as a user it's completely transparent and you can't make a mistake. Since most services use a scheme wrapper to define their configuration, it's easy to check parameters to ensure the configuration will work. It's not done in every service, and not complete, but it's doable, not only for this project, but for any guix user. You should really go check the manual on services :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: personal communications server 2019-08-06 1:21 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 6:45 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2019-08-06 8:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Alex Sassmannshausen @ 2019-08-06 8:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-guix Heya, quiliro@riseup.net writes: > El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió: >> >> Hi Quiliro, >> >>> PING > > Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response. > >> It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is. > > I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system > init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and that > it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am > asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a quest > of making a personal communications server. I like this idea a lot, and for me it's somewhere down in my list of awesome projects to do with some friends when we organise a hacking get together… probably not quite as firm a commitment as you were looking for ;-) Alex > >> We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what >> you’re asking. > > I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-08-07 7:40 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2019-07-19 4:42 personal communications server Quiliro Ordóñez 2019-08-05 19:28 ` Quiliro Ordóñez 2019-08-05 21:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 1:21 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 6:45 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 14:25 ` quiliro 2019-08-06 14:56 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 18:19 ` Ricardo Wurmus 2019-08-06 21:51 ` quiliro 2019-08-07 9:40 ` L p R n d n 2019-08-06 21:52 ` L p R n d n 2019-08-06 21:48 ` quiliro 2019-08-07 7:00 ` Julien Lepiller 2019-08-06 8:51 ` Alex Sassmannshausen
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