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From: "Daniel Sockwell" Message-ID: Subject: Re: Understanding the Guix approach when language package managers are around To: "Dominic Martinez" , "Thompson, David" Cc: help-guix@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <8735cr2qke.fsf@dominicm.dev> References: <8735cr2qke.fsf@dominicm.dev> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:41d0:2:aacc::; envelope-from=daniel@codesections.com; helo=out2.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: JO2lxvLKKfT9 David and Dominic,=0A=0AThanks to you both for your very helpful (though = slightly=0Adisappointing) replies.=0A=0ASeptember 16, 2022 11:36 AM, "Tho= mpson, David" wrote:=0A> Unfortunately, you're= right. Many have tried to untangle the mess,=0A> but no one has succeede= d. Here's a blog post from 2015 that=0A> illustrates some of the problems= :=0A> =0A> https://dustycloud.org/blog/javascript-packaging-dystopia=0A> = =0A> Unfortunately, the problems are still the same in 2022.=0A=0AThat's = too bad. I'm glad to no longer be working primarily=0Ain JS but there's = a lot of great free software written in =0Athe language and missing out o= n easy access to it is a shame.=0A=0A> [A JS project will often have huge= ] dependency trees with =0A> likely multiple versions of *the same librar= y* in it=0A=0ABut isn't that something that Guix is really *good* at hand= ling?=0AMy understanding is that one of Guix's selling points is that it= =0Aallows package A to depend on both B and C even if B and C depend=0Aon= different versions of D (aka, the diamond-dependency problem).=0ASo mayb= e Guix would be a better JavaScript package manager than=0ANPM is!=0A=0A(= Or am I confused about what you meant or how Guix works?)=0A=0A=0ASeptemb= er 16, 2022 12:57 PM, "Dominic Martinez" wrote:=0A> [G= uix] provides a single, consistent interface for packages, but it's=0A> s= ignificantly at odds with the Javascript/Python ecosystems that evolved= =0A> around "download and run this mysterious blob".=0A> =0A> For other l= anguages guix import can help, but right now Guix does not=0A> have a con= sistent way to package Javascript, which is why so few=0A> packages are c= urrently available.=0A=0AThanks, that makes sense.=0A=0A> I have a few fa= llbacks for when I can't work on a project in Guix:=0A> ...=0A> 2. Use Do= cker. A docker container with a volume linked to your code is=0A> almost = always seamless.=0A=0AAh, that's a good option. I experimented with some= of Guix's --container=0Aoptions but didn't consider using docker directl= y. I take it that's what=0Ayou do? Do you use docker compose and/or do = anything to make your docker=0Acontainers more functional/fit better with= Guix? =0A=0A> 3. The upcoming --emulate-fhs option. This isn't merged ye= t, but=0A> you can build Guix with the following patches so that download= ed=0A> binaries will see system libraries: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/56= 677=0A=0AOoh, that looks *very* cool and might be exactly what I need! I= t might=0Anot solve the problem for JavaScript packages, where NPM really= is =0Adiametrically opposed to the Guix approach. But I spend most of m= y=0Atime writing Raku these days, and Raku's approach to package manageme= nt=0Ais quite a lot like Guix's -- it even installs programs to immutable= =0Adirectories named based on a hash, see https://docs.raku.org/language/= compilation=0ASo exposing just a few system libraries to Raku programs co= uld be=0Aperfect for getting the two package managers to work well togeth= er!=0A=0AThanks again to you both!=0A=0ABest,=0ADaniel