From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qMETD2vhwWHQXQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 15:15:07 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id CPLNCmvhwWF2XgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 14:15:07 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C27C23C9A7 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 15:15:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:57388 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzfuy-0007mW-UY for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 09:15:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzfsp-0004Hj-7n for help-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 09:12:51 -0500 Received: from flashner.co.il ([178.62.234.194]:50534) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzfsn-0006y1-L6 for help-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 09:12:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [141.226.10.247]) by flashner.co.il (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBDC24000B; Tue, 21 Dec 2021 14:12:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2021 16:11:28 +0200 From: Efraim Flashner To: Andy Tai Subject: Re: bootstrapping scenario for a package Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Andy Tai , help-guix@gnu.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+nGh0jGSh/R/stcB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.62.234.194; envelope-from=efraim@flashner.co.il; helo=flashner.co.il X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1640096107; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=H2H0bZc4RtTEVJG1hY7V4TzPvJPX5uAg2sd6rSru+H0=; b=kTES14IOWAlpR7xQwsrRQX6mMbFAO6nP/C7tYZ0PaFi3xBZtAc5tNYYu846nOBu2z9gT5V egI9G7nSb9gnAQstZQEsaCztYme+UZxv94hfZTG2xtTudKkQ5Irvs/rwUZdWL5srq+Mb4Z uYGmkDaPeGZ5SQJ9XPlvSGm70he20l8MZoaYbuk3/jt/0Be9yPFSC5wR6XT/M5BOjqnmx7 9fkahyxWipz2R5e5Ma/dwyM4Uv2Q5nPnME46Zt+pT8qjCLQrK/0aA7NK2BQwV2VPkaIbGU Gq7o2/7+oHY04vwYxXuTqFvufWnzqeZkc+aigtdPLoyI1j0tj9tpvp4TvpM8nw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1640096107; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LRAlK7EWnEzLpSAwLQxdRQYLHvZH7BO/rAMvx67Cyk4KHVxSrgl94RqDLhVAFa1NjiohAd RM09oKzQaw8BWzdxcHyfXhwVZvVcYRtUPkk16EIa8HskHprwkRLOvyU3Ooj1QX2l7Wrqar +AKyFevcdNd5H/w/Oz0MP555rosAka4IDKBxpM0Ad0YXpjOjxu1lQtUSoxkAj45Q0TINGD D4t1S47j1V9tJfiLLt4aGoX9VWdXNCUxKx0kO7jL90qk4dEIPhmcqrCxent0RvRdfhwWsE OyR7FcLMKcZn69mvt4F6vKVLff2xGCXW6JakuA0nk6vTXh8uxI71+JWJttW5xw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.93 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C27C23C9A7 X-Spam-Score: -4.93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: qEjTo8bv0lgI --+nGh0jGSh/R/stcB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:03:25PM -0800, Andy Tai wrote: > Hi, I was trying to update mono to the current release version. The > build step as documented actually says to download a minimal C# > compiler from the mono site which is then used to compile the rest of > the source to build the full system. I looked and did not find the > source of this minimal compiler--so it is a black box in a way. >=20 > In free software it is ideal to build everything from source. I > wonder how is such a package handled in Guix? What is the strategy > for bootstrapping? Thanks For circular dependencies our first attempt is to use a minimal variant of the package that's missing features to build the full package. For something like a language that depends on a working implementation of itself we'll see if we can bootstrap it using either a previous version of itself, a different implementation or a slimmed down version that has enough working to be able to build itself. Some notable examples are rust, bootstrapped from mrustc, and a chain of rust compilers. Also go, bootstrapped from gccgo or go-1.4 (written in C). One where this fails is GHC, where even going back to the early 90's it was near impossible to find an implementation that didn't depend on a previous version. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=A8=D7=A0=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=A4 = =D7=9D=D7=99=D7=A8=D7=A4=D7=90 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --+nGh0jGSh/R/stcB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmHB4I0ACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1G+NQ//Wk4gcb8svbyAIrDCL+UDdPjqq33LJMlUVK2EJArE7qMUXjsRZlDWPpkY wOMiO0xxI6QMRlsA7bxFlCFGi9kG/NFmpaylwYCw9f+WYC7wei2h2mZQNbpIV8cd rk5yM1cCubiNvYfy1WFbgLnm+p6ce1yekZZye7xY7JMTwUtpqfpnlkCywUdizSLi 2Wbw8VEfxJ2FFgKzJgqyKe1sLPepSa7dqsv3lwktEEe/7MAGb/X/ibVGRofhQ50g UPuHjO4UjQExXYj30WozbItC6Q1C4OU5uIFc0vvGaD7rBtRtVwbvhvkT2WZJylI1 Pu5X43OMoX9hta1kkZkGDdNkjMYB180UuR7Xa+WcVANDpOKk0r6sCVttfLLNpCyz ZGPOnkK9nv8WLH0jwB9fZsVqVQM4FKZNe2Xh4MvevGFQLciSpHsfBaxR2A8YZ7Dv 9pH5wBX2pt27NbFY3h+OuCITNwEvnrf+mKdTBNcOFVMs8LO9qyLsHFNEdsB3rtq8 H0OeZEDdWCeLv/4FJFVZgOnvhDXgGaO6GFlYUdKJ0Z25jjkcJSMCu+VXel9eQAae GTA3zFTtEvECwNClMO2fVxD2Y7+Ekfe5zbuSUOxT2Cqf663Zm727mpqot+9u2aRP fkPCKJ69ziItlBgWvjay0YTcYiihUEAyjgBeJ0kJvkDbzchwaUQ= =lNDt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+nGh0jGSh/R/stcB--