substitutes

substitutes

[Catonano]

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This manual page

https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Substitute-Server-Authorization.html#Substitute-Server-Authorization

says that I should loo for substitutes authorization keys in

prefix/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub

I'm on a laptop with GuixSD on it and I don't understand: which is my
prefix ?

I'm asking this because Efraim invited me to use his substitute server on
the irc channel and I don't know how to set it up

I want to use his substitute server because I'd like to build the
installation image from the branch with the graphical installer, in order
to test it in a visrtual machine

But when I tried to build the installation image I got this (tl;dr
linux-libre-4.13.2 missing)

~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
guix system: warning: Your Guix installation is 17 days old.
guix system: warning: Consider running 'guix pull' followed by
'guix system reconfigure' to get up-to-date packages and security updates.

substitute: updating list of substitutes from 'https://mirror.hydra.gnu.org'...
100.0%
substitute: updating list of substitutes from 'https://mirror.hydra.gnu.org'...
100.0%

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/releases/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.
..
ERROR: download failed "
http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/releases/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
404 "Not Found"

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/mirror/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz...
ERROR: Throw to key `ftp-error' with args `(#<input-output: socket 15>
"RETR linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz" 550 "Failed to open file.\r")'.

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.
..
following redirection to `
https://mirror2.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/gnuftp/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz'.
..
ERROR: download failed "
https://mirror2.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/gnuftp/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
404 "Not Found"

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.
..
ERROR: In procedure connect*: Connection timed out

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.
..
ERROR: Throw to key `ftp-error' with args `(#<input-output: socket 19> "CWD
4.13.2-gnu" 550 "Can't change directory to 4.13.2-gnu: No such file or
directory\r")'.

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.
..
ERROR: download failed "
http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
404 "Not Found"

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
http://mirror.hydra.gnu.org/file/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz/sha256/166yy7nah2h2ffxqgb92nfwrvihna3kvdx4ryppf34gmybmmfw36.
..
ERROR: download failed "
http://mirror.hydra.gnu.org/file/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz/sha256/166yy7nah2h2ffxqgb92nfwrvihna3kvdx4ryppf34gmybmmfw36"
404 "Not Found"

Starting download of
/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz
From
http://tarballs.nixos.org/sha256/166yy7nah2h2ffxqgb92nfwrvihna3kvdx4ryppf34gmybmmfw36.
..
ERROR: download failed "
http://tarballs.nixos.org/sha256/166yy7nah2h2ffxqgb92nfwrvihna3kvdx4ryppf34gmybmmfw36"
404 "Not Found"
failed to download
"/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
from ("
http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/releases/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
"ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/mirror/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz"
"mirror://gnu/linux-libre/4.13.2-gnu/linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz")
builder for
`/gnu/store/9nkcdrfjn0p8lqiy20myv65nc48mpxc2-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.drv'
failed to produce output path
`/gnu/store/i1h3wfag2j71xz1vnkk6lhsbymgrdp8a-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz'
cannot build derivation
`/gnu/store/r931q9wwrad9sm2l6r6ih2crqa87bxw5-linux-libre-4.13.2-gnu.tar.xz.drv':
1 dependencies couldn't be built
cannot build derivation
`/gnu/store/3ls60p58nqgiif4bxndzp5dxab1nc3jm-linux-libre-4.13.2.drv': 1
dependencies couldn't be built
guix system: error: build failed: build of
`/gnu/store/3ls60p58nqgiif4bxndzp5dxab1nc3jm-linux-libre-4.13.2.drv' failed

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Re: substitutes

[Leo Famulari]

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On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 08:17:54AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> This manual page
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Substitute-Server-Authorization.html#Substitute-Server-Authorization
> 
> says that I should loo for substitutes authorization keys in
> 
> prefix/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub
> 
> I'm on a laptop with GuixSD on it and I don't understand: which is my
> prefix ?

Sorry, those instructions are confusing and should be improved. On
GuixSD, hydra.gnu.org is authorized by default; you don't need to
authorize that server again.

For reference, on GuixSD the default signing keys for binary substitutes
can be found at '/run/current-system/profile/share/guix'.

On a foreign distro, if you did the binary installation, they are at
'~root/.guix/profile/share/guix'.

> I'm asking this because Efraim invited me to use his substitute server on
> the irc channel and I don't know how to set it up

If Efraim is just providing a substitute mirror of hydra.gnu.org, you
don't need to do anything. If he is building his own binary substitutes,
you'll need the signing key for his server, which wil be provided by
him. I've copied him on this message.

> I want to use his substitute server because I'd like to build the
> installation image from the branch with the graphical installer, in order
> to test it in a visrtual machine
> 
> But when I tried to build the installation image I got this (tl;dr
> linux-libre-4.13.2 missing)

Unfortunately, the linux-libre project does not maintain an archive of
their releases, as you saw. Do you need to use that particular version
of the kernel, or can you use something more current, which might still
be available upstream or cached on our servers?

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Re: substitutes

[Catonano]

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2017-12-26 20:09 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:

> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 08:17:54AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> > This manual page
> >
> > https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Substitute-Server-
> Authorization.html#Substitute-Server-Authorization
> >
> > says that I should loo for substitutes authorization keys in
> >
> > prefix/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub
> >
> > I'm on a laptop with GuixSD on it and I don't understand: which is my
> > prefix ?
>
> Sorry, those instructions are confusing and should be improved. On
> GuixSD, hydra.gnu.org is authorized by default; you don't need to
> authorize that server again.
>
> For reference, on GuixSD the default signing keys for binary substitutes
> can be found at '/run/current-system/profile/share/guix'.
>
> On a foreign distro, if you did the binary installation, they are at
> '~root/.guix/profile/share/guix'.
>

thanks


>
> > I'm asking this because Efraim invited me to use his substitute server on
> > the irc channel and I don't know how to set it up
>
> If Efraim is just providing a substitute mirror of hydra.gnu.org, you
> don't need to do anything. If he is building his own binary substitutes,
> you'll need the signing key for his server, which wil be provided by
> him. I've copied him on this message.
>

Ah. Thanks


>
> > I want to use his substitute server because I'd like to build the
> > installation image from the branch with the graphical installer, in order
> > to test it in a visrtual machine
> >
> > But when I tried to build the installation image I got this (tl;dr
> > linux-libre-4.13.2 missing)
>
> Unfortunately, the linux-libre project does not maintain an archive of
> their releases, as you saw. Do you need to use that particular version
> of the kernel, or can you use something more current, which might still
> be available upstream or cached on our servers?
>


I just run this line
~$ ./pre-inst-env guix system disk-image gnu/system/install.scm

as by the instrctions to build an installation image from that branch

and I ended up with the error I reported here

If an installation image with the graphical installer can be built with a
more current kernel, I'm all for it
Only, please, tell me how

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Re: substitutes

[Catonano]

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thank you !

2017-12-26 21:43 GMT+01:00 Catonano <catonano@gmail.com>:

>
>

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Re: substitutes

[Leo Famulari]

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On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 09:43:22PM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> 2017-12-26 20:09 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
> > If Efraim is just providing a substitute mirror of hydra.gnu.org, you
> > don't need to do anything. If he is building his own binary substitutes,
> > you'll need the signing key for his server, which wil be provided by
> > him. I've copied him on this message.
> 
> Ah. Thanks

I forgot to include him directly, so I'm doing it now.

> I just run this line
> ~$ ./pre-inst-env guix system disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
> 
> as by the instrctions to build an installation image from that branch
> 
> and I ended up with the error I reported here
> 
> If an installation image with the graphical installer can be built with a
> more current kernel, I'm all for it
> Only, please, tell me how

From the folder where you run that command, can you do `git describe`
and send the result here? Once I'm sure what branch and commit you are
using, I'll try updating the branch on Savannah.

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Re: substitutes

[Catonano]

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2017-12-26 23:06 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:

> From the folder where you run that command, can you do `git describe`
> and send the result here? Once I'm sure what branch and commit you are
> using, I'll try updating the branch on Savannah.
>


here

~/projects/graphical-installer_guix$ git describe
v0.13.0-3385-gaae9d0b9c

Thanka again

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Re: substitutes

[Efraim Flashner]

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On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 05:06:16PM -0500, Leo Famulari wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 09:43:22PM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> > 2017-12-26 20:09 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
> > > If Efraim is just providing a substitute mirror of hydra.gnu.org, you
> > > don't need to do anything. If he is building his own binary substitutes,
> > > you'll need the signing key for his server, which wil be provided by
> > > him. I've copied him on this message.
> > 
> > Ah. Thanks
> 
> I forgot to include him directly, so I'm doing it now.

In this case Catonano was looking for the linux-libre 4.13.2 (?)
tarball, which I had a copy of. I don't actually have a local mirror of
hydra, its on my aarch64 substitute server.

> 
> > I just run this line
> > ~$ ./pre-inst-env guix system disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
> > 
> > as by the instrctions to build an installation image from that branch
> > 
> > and I ended up with the error I reported here
> > 
> > If an installation image with the graphical installer can be built with a
> > more current kernel, I'm all for it
> > Only, please, tell me how
> 
> From the folder where you run that command, can you do `git describe`
> and send the result here? Once I'm sure what branch and commit you are
> using, I'll try updating the branch on Savannah.



-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   אפרים פלשנר
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted

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Re: substitutes

[Efraim Flashner]

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On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:02:50AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> 2017-12-26 23:06 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
> 
> > From the folder where you run that command, can you do `git describe`
> > and send the result here? Once I'm sure what branch and commit you are
> > using, I'll try updating the branch on Savannah.
> >
> 
> 
> here
> 
> ~/projects/graphical-installer_guix$ git describe
> v0.13.0-3385-gaae9d0b9c
> 
> Thanka again

Also based on the path it looks like the graphical installer branch


-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   אפרים פלשנר
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted

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Re: substitutes

[Leo Famulari]

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On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:02:50AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> 2017-12-26 23:06 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
> 
> > From the folder where you run that command, can you do `git describe`
> > and send the result here? Once I'm sure what branch and commit you are
> > using, I'll try updating the branch on Savannah.
> >
> 
> 
> here
> 
> ~/projects/graphical-installer_guix$ git describe
> v0.13.0-3385-gaae9d0b9c

Looks like Danny just updated the branch:

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-installer-2

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Re: substitutes

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 0:07 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:

> Looks like Danny just updated the branch:
>
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-installer-2
>


thank you !

But now I get

~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure allocate-struct:
Wrong type argument in position 2: 11

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Graphical installer branch

[Leo Famulari]

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On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 03:58:57AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> But now I get
> 
> ~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
> disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
> guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
> gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
> gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure allocate-struct:
> Wrong type argument in position 2: 11

Now I'm not sure what's going on.

The graphical installer code on this branch is unfinished, I think, but
Danny will know more about its status than I do.

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Re: substitutes

[Efraim Flashner]

On December 28, 2017 4:58:57 AM GMT+02:00, Catonano <catonano@gmail.com> wrote:
>2017-12-28 0:07 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
>
>> Looks like Danny just updated the branch:
>>
>> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-installer-2
>>
>
>
>thank you !
>
>But now I get
>
>~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
>disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
>guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
>gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
>gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure
>allocate-struct:
>Wrong type argument in position 2: 11

I don't remember which are the necessary go files, but the quick version is you'll need to delete all the '.go' files except for in gnu/packages

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: substitutes

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 6:01 GMT+01:00 Efraim Flashner <efraim@flashner.co.il>:

>
>
> On December 28, 2017 4:58:57 AM GMT+02:00, Catonano <catonano@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >2017-12-28 0:07 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:
> >
> >> Looks like Danny just updated the branch:
> >>
> >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/log/?h=wip-installer-2
> >>
> >
> >
> >thank you !
> >
> >But now I get
> >
> >~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
> >disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
> >guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
> >gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
> >gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure
> >allocate-struct:
> >Wrong type argument in position 2: 11
>
> I don't remember which are the necessary go files, but the quick version
> is you'll need to delete all the '.go' files except for in gnu/packages
>

Thanks Efraim

But no. Even after "make clean" and erasing by hahnd some stray .go files,
I still get

~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure allocate-struct:
Wrong type argument in position 2: 11

Well, ok

I'll keep an eye on this

We'll see

Thanks

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Re: Graphical installer branch

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 5:58 GMT+01:00 Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>:

> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 03:58:57AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
> > But now I get
> >
> > ~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
> > disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
> > guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
> > gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
> > gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure allocate-struct:
> > Wrong type argument in position 2: 11
>
> Now I'm not sure what's going on.
>
> The graphical installer code on this branch is unfinished, I think, but
> Danny will know more about its status than I do.
>


Ok, thanks

Anyway, it's not necessary for me to test the graphical installer, I was
just curious

Maybe I shall wait until it's more accessible

If it's not on top of your priorities right now, it's ok

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Re: Graphical installer branch

[Danny Milosavljevic]

Hi Catonano,

the installer should work.

Try make clean before?

I tried creating a disk-image like you did and it worked and I have a disk image now (which should be able to install guix).

Re: Graphical installer branch

[Danny Milosavljevic]

Oh, are you using branch wip-installer-2 (note: "2").

Re: Graphical installer branch

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 15:45 GMT+01:00 Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@scratchpost.org>:

> Oh, are you using branch wip-installer-2 (note: "2").
>

yes. That's what Ludo suggested me

Iis it wrong ?

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Re: Graphical installer branch

[Danny Milosavljevic]

> Iis it wrong ?

No, I just built a disk-image on the wip-installer-2 branch using your command and it worked.

Not sure what's up on your side with it.  On the other hand, disk-image has always been flaky for me (also in master).

The error message refers to some bare-bones template which Mathieu changed recently - but I merged it to wip-installer-2 some days ago.  Also, it works for me.

Are you sure you don't have uncommitted changes in your working copy?

Re: Graphical installer branch

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 22:43 GMT+01:00 Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@scratchpost.org>:

> > Iis it wrong ?
>
> No, I just built a disk-image on the wip-installer-2 branch using your
> command and it worked.
>
> Not sure what's up on your side with it.  On the other hand, disk-image
> has always been flaky for me (also in master).
>
> The error message refers to some bare-bones template which Mathieu changed
> recently - but I merged it to wip-installer-2 some days ago.  Also, it
> works for me.
>
> Are you sure you don't have uncommitted changes in your working copy?
>


~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ git status
Sul branch wip-installer-2
Your branch is up to date with 'origin/wip-installer-2'.

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)

    gnu/packages/gnome.go.cLkB4p
    gnu/tests/databases.trs
    guix/elf.go.FRksVZ
    t-profile-alt-16250-1-link
    t-profile-alt-22041-1-link

nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track)



I mean, it's ok, if you don't know what's going on

I'll try again in a couple of months

It's not urgent, I was just curious

Thanks anyway

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Re: Graphical installer branch

[Mathieu Othacehe]

Hi,

> The error message refers to some bare-bones template which Mathieu changed recently - but I merged it to wip-installer-2 some days ago.  Also, it works for me.
>
> Are you sure you don't have uncommitted changes in your working copy?

I just built successfully wip-installer-2 branch. Can you try to "make
clean" before building the disk-image?

Mathieu

Re: Graphical installer branch

[Catonano]

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2017-12-28 22:58 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Othacehe <m.othacehe@gmail.com>:

>
> Hi,
>
> > The error message refers to some bare-bones template which Mathieu
> changed recently - but I merged it to wip-installer-2 some days ago.  Also,
> it works for me.
> >
> > Are you sure you don't have uncommitted changes in your working copy?
>
> I just built successfully wip-installer-2 branch. Can you try to "make
> clean" before building the disk-image?
>
> Mathieu
>


I had done that aleady

I found the poblem.

I had renamed the folder from "guix" to "graphical-installer_guix"

So it seems that the guix machinery wants the containing folder to be named
"guix"

I had renamed it because I am keeping several guix checkouts, each one for
doing a specific thing

One for my trytond service, one general, one for building some patches that
people send to debbugs, and so on

Well, now I have an image with the graphical installer :-)

I wil try soon

Thanks !

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Re: Graphical installer branch

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name> writes:

> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 03:58:57AM +0100, Catonano wrote:
>> But now I get
>> 
>> ~/projects/graphical-installer_guix [env]$ ./pre-inst-env guix system
>> disk-image gnu/system/install.scm
>> guix system: error: failed to load 'gnu/system/install.scm':
>> gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22:
>> gnu/system/examples/bare-bones.tmpl:18:22: In procedure allocate-struct:
>> Wrong type argument in position 2: 11
>
> Now I'm not sure what's going on.
>
> The graphical installer code on this branch is unfinished, I think, but
> Danny will know more about its status than I do.

This looks like an ABI problem.  Try “make clean-go”.

-- 
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net

Re: Graphical installer branch

[Hartmut Goebel]

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Am 31.12.2017 um 07:02 schrieb Catonano:
> I had renamed the folder from "guix" to "graphical-installer_guix"
>
> […]
>
> I had renamed it because I am keeping several guix checkouts, each one
> for doing a specific thing


I'm using "git worktree", thus all checkouts share the same .git
directory. Not perfect, but a big help for me.

-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel          | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com               |
| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |


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